Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE1EC002D for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:38:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B08C40352 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:38:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.517 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.517 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CbnUSWZ0RQOg for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:38:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:05:24 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail.wpsoftware.net (s66-183-0-205.bc.hsia.telus.net [66.183.0.205]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B3040247 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from camus (camus-andrew.lan [192.168.0.190]) by mail.wpsoftware.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BCA6E40114; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:33:01 +0000 From: Andrew Poelstra To: "Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One Victim of Many" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/hDOKUNJDsa5XQwv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why OpenTimestamps does not "linearize" its transactions X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:38:27 -0000 --/hDOKUNJDsa5XQwv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 01:15:08PM -0400, Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One V= ictim of Many via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I'm replying to Peter, skipping the other emails. >=20 > I perceive all these emails as disruptive trolling, ignoring the > importance of real timestamping, while handwaving about things that > are roughly false and harmful. >=20 > Since the start of cryptocurrency, Bitcoin has been used to write > timestamps that stay intact despite malicious action to arbitrary > systems and records, showing the earliest on-chain publication of > data. It seems misleading that OTS does not do that, when it is such a > prominent system. > Please be cautious with tone and when assuming bad faith. I don't believe that Peter is trolling. Also, as politely as I can, when something like OTS whose model is dead-simple, well-documented, and has been running for years providing significant value to many people, comes under attack for being underspecified or failing to do what it says ... this is a surprising claim, to say the least. After talking to a few people offline, all of whom are baffled at this entire conversation, I think the issue might come down to the way that people interpret "timestamping". If you believe that "timestamping" means providing a verifiable ordering to events, then of course OTS does not accomplish this, nor has it ever claimed to. If you think that "timestamping" means proving that some data existed at a particular time, then this is exactly what OTS does. Personally -- and I suspect this is true of Peter as well -- I have always read the word as having the latter meaning, and it never occurred to me until now that others might have a different interpretation. I apologize for contributing to a thread that is getting a bit out of hand, but I hope this can help the different parties see where the confusion is. --=20 Andrew Poelstra Director of Research, Blockstream Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew The sun is always shining in space -Justin Lewis-Webster --/hDOKUNJDsa5XQwv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEkPnKPD7Je+ki35VexYjWPOQbl8EFAmKo8HsACgkQxYjWPOQb l8EdmggAkrmp7TGMpd6y0AC+lqVG+xXATJmA5BPnjxkHem8Rk8JPMeH7tr8jNIGg HRroQ7gqImZx6uwP2Qrh1bHpQUWULLCHx1kFrGJeux6cyzaOB/zohsegegHxIpcv 5I/Mo7No5QSPvVwzizUHSnJkZw9YpHWpgRllAuZH+syMLmKNh1D/P1dnQrE5IMeo Vg1JQtbG343fL+MN++/VpY3RG2lzpIil2fRiebpeXqBU+Ha3xc7j6gxijZAUlNM2 6WDOiYH+GdFYfiXJcCidJ1s7kG5MjiiKJLiE0OBIM/T84JpI0AhLq9zup65m3NXA BSS5zfqZs1AWEpIMPb5txzgFD+yeyg== =q9s6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/hDOKUNJDsa5XQwv--