Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB896E69 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-io0-f194.google.com (mail-io0-f194.google.com [209.85.223.194]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11027285 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io0-f194.google.com with SMTP id d13so6644438iog.5 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=HjCOD4YJHOZneudf/zE322tpR38QjzBapdRQrWbB/sY=; b=GSjji0RJU1myM7/Nzow3ghwcLzcrVzzhhD9yth/JXyuGvI3hxjxP3fSkEVi3BdPigY 3GcFqlBVq2Qk+qvsC7XK0C0ceDrMTj8Yq8hPquUZ2QFi4VdVjNrr5zA/B7+TvLoCTpU2 lIfq24I5ZKNWrnxumAtwiGKqDibVKIUQaWmEeFBlPoAAtIqyTMqwZ4tQ6b/6eitRQwhq J9o2IMvR00dzPVlVILcg5K6bFPjvAisjtySgCD5oISZyUsJBKx39UMZQuOa7ss1cHYTD 9e5tHgRvGWjrrFmTT7CIJcTU2DOhwBrUDeMwUTQZrmM3H5HnC67BT/dXKqSjpcZu2xG3 vgzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=HjCOD4YJHOZneudf/zE322tpR38QjzBapdRQrWbB/sY=; b=WOUvOU+o0ZmieSujY9pvRKy72ylqoH/p50vdJNGTGqY/7w3s7cPbByZBdu6o8uilqB PPuhAXCClBRL5crnFQ8pLZituq3qti1EBz+fliStEK4ISXAkyux3C/j6vWWsuBjKt/02 AXHd6cI3O5zpR2yf0CvOxy1a0j6nzwHaTB8EerDCKJwxUPvZKSUdbBbG+zFQ4fpIS7hm wqlqm5TpWsLE6QHkLXav14Dhascbp9oXn4sZUrYbTbhtBS8h9ODBbmUONh7v8NrQTlNn 0XMqNJZJY7Y24HNqXw+Z19C2hiL0yMrfXKfHIFZl7+7wXFqhZHwdRk8a3dg29Ve0VEmB s1Tg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyte7EEbMmOc8Spqg6CeYEDHpChH4hwa5EULby+oTJs7fhOwibBe7 N+sqWBBrDLx7eHpEFeCPCwdCKw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225Grfl3YvQNHWG1kCRc04hjAkJ1bwsx/+uwEaB3slwkG9Jmxtwv58oj9xwb9n0J3q7WU6Id5A== X-Received: by 10.107.9.200 with SMTP id 69mr762530ioj.289.1516661545435; Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:600:a080:16bb:19f4:bd85:8d70:2db3? ([2601:600:a080:16bb:19f4:bd85:8d70:2db3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m21sm4329973itb.43.2018.01.22.14.52.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Eric Voskuil X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15C153) In-Reply-To: <091F89E0-FBA0-42F9-9166-CF121A84319F@friedenbach.org> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:23 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <091F89E0-FBA0-42F9-9166-CF121A84319F@friedenbach.org> To: Mark Friedenbach , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:53:50 +0000 Cc: Ilan Oh Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Blockchain Voluntary Fork (Split) Proposal (Chaofan Li) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:26 -0000 This is true but confuses people because obviously miners must commit capita= l to mining before any block space can exist to have value. The reason for t= he misunderstanding is that miners don=E2=80=99t simply respond, they antici= pate. All production, and therefore capital investment, is the result of ant= icipation of future returns, not an attempt to chase past returns. The first miner anticipated that the then-worthless =E2=80=9Ctokens=E2=80=9D= he was mining would have a future value. Turns out he was right. Others hav= e been wrong, which is the nature of betting on future prices. But if nobody= does it, there are no products. e > On Jan 22, 2018, at 11:59, Mark Friedenbach via bitcoin-dev wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Jan 22, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Ilan Oh via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>=20 >> The chain with the most mining power will tend to have more value. >=20 > I believe you have the causality on that backwards. The tokens which are w= orth more value will attract more mining hash rate. Miners respond to cash-o= ut value, they don=E2=80=99t set it. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev