Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 02:52:34 +0000
To: Chris Belcher <belcher@riseup.net>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
From: dev_f <dev@fitti.io>
Reply-To: dev_f <dev@fitti.io>
Message-ID: <MRPJ51OJKiOHFfMaz1Y0XC-BWAyJqQFRQttP5sApf8_gtlVk3k-jziFACTwFZ3QPK3jFZ9yaVmFXf9BuN-dbo3J1JrWjLTkk3wKw1LfocKk=@fitti.io>
In-Reply-To: <2b8ba39f-8fe9-8800-b8e6-47ca263774d5@riseup.net>
References: <2b8ba39f-8fe9-8800-b8e6-47ca263774d5@riseup.net>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] PayJoin adoption
Precedence: list

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Hey Chris,

I assume that a major reason for the lack of adoption is the lack of visib=
ility.
I personally first found out about PayJoin when using BTCPayServer for a d=
onation
and being told by the site that PayJoin was available (https://hrf.org/don=
ate-bitcoin/payjoin/).
The wiki page you created is a good starting point. Bringing up the issue =
of implementing
PayJoin directly with the companies / in the respective software repos see=
ms like it would
be a strong first step for greater adoption. Gets more eyes on it in gener=
al.
(Directly contributing to the software by writing an implementation is obv=
iously the
most helpful, though clearly harder.)

As a second option, pushing merchants towards accepting Bitcoin specifical=
ly via
software like BTCPayServer, which already supports PayJoin, might be immen=
sely
helpful when Bitcoin adoption itself rises.

Fitti

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=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original M=
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On Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 1:07 AM, Chris Belcher via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> PayJoin is an exciting bitcoin privacy technology which has the
> =


> potential to damage the ability of blockchain surveillance to spy on
> =


> bitcoin users and destroy bitcoin's fungibility. A protocol standard has
> =


> already been defined and implemented by a couple of projects such as
> =


> BTCPayServer, Wasabi Wallet, JoinMarket and BlueWallet.
> =


> I've made a wiki page tracking adoption:
> =


> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adoption
> =


> It is similar to the Bech32 adoption page.
> =


> Recently a UK bitcoin exchange shut down due to new regulations, with
> =


> the owner writing a very interesting and relevant blog post that I'll
> =


> quote here:
> =


> > you=E2=80=99re considered suspicious if you used a marketplace and not=
 an
> =


> exchange. Coinjoin counts as high risk. Gambling is high risk. As you
> =


> use entities that are paranoid about keeping their coins clean and
> =


> adhering to all the regulations, your risk scores will continue to
> =


> increase and without you even knowing why, your deposits will become
> =


> rejected, you may be asked to supply documents or lose the coins, your
> =


> account may become suspended without you having any clue what you did
> =


> wrong. And quite possibly you didn=E2=80=99t do anything wrong. But that=
 won=E2=80=99t
> =


> matter.
> =


> > The goal post, the risk score threshold will keep moving along this
> =


> trend until the point where you will be afraid of using your personal
> =


> wallet, donating to someone online, receiving bitcoins from anywhere
> =


> except for regulated exchanges. At that point, crypto will be akin to a
> =


> regular bank account. You won=E2=80=99t have a bitcoin wallet, you will =
have
> =


> accounts to websites.
> =


> https://blog.bitbargain.com/post/638504004285054976/goodbye
> =


> If we want bitcoin to fulfill its dream of a permissionless money for
> =


> the internet then we'll have to work on this. What can we do to increase
> =


> adoption of PayJoin?
> =


> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> =


> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> =


> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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