Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <hozer@grid.coop>) id 1Vz8hX-0001OP-4z
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:38:27 +0000
X-ACL-Warn: 
Received: from nl.grid.coop ([50.7.166.116])
	by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	id 1Vz8hU-0006m9-GC for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:38:27 +0000
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1000)
	by nl.grid.coop with local; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 11:38:17 -0600
	id 000000000006E26E.0000000052C6F589.00006EB2
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 11:38:17 -0600
From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
To: Drak <drak@zikula.org>
Message-ID: <20140103173817.GN3180@nl.grid.coop>
References: <1795f3067ba3fcdd0caf978cc59ff024.squirrel@fruiteater.riseup.net>
	<52A435EA.7090405@gmail.com> <201312081237.24473.luke@dashjr.org>
	<CANAnSg2OrmQAcZ+cZdtQeADicH3U29QOgYPfP1AQhOMP6+P1wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAS2fgR0khyJxmz9c2Oc87hOFgiNuiPJuaeugGajdo_EcKEW9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20131212205106.GA4572@netbook.cypherspace.org>
	<CANAnSg3nPhrk2k=yDKf39AuBQnSuTWJbgANdMhGe=soiOy0NTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAS2fgTmWRMxYweu3sNn_X7grgjUqTQujM-DbZRxG_YMZnD=7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140103054515.GL3180@nl.grid.coop>
	<CANAnSg0esEMQ+G=9F2zK6okcewT6NdYBFnXHmyHz8VR4AAp0nw@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CANAnSg0esEMQ+G=9F2zK6okcewT6NdYBFnXHmyHz8VR4AAp0nw@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay
	domain
X-Headers-End: 1Vz8hU-0006m9-GC
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Dedicated server for bitcoin.org,
 your thoughts?
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 17:38:27 -0000

On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 09:59:15AM +0000, Drak wrote:
> On 3 January 2014 05:45, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 05:48:06AM -0800, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> > > On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:39 AM, Drak <drak@zikula.org> wrote:
> > > > The NSA has the ability, right now to change every download of
> > bitcoin-qt,
> > > > on the fly and the only cure is encryption.
> >
> > No, the only cure is the check the hashes. We should know something
> > about hashes here. TLS is a big pile of 'too big to audit'. Spend
> > a couple of satoshis and put the hash of the source tar.gz and the
> > binaries in the blockchain. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> Which is why, as pointed out several times at 30c3 by several renowned
> figures, why cryptography has remained squarely outside of mainstream use.
> It needs to just work and until you can trust the connection and what the
> end point sends you, automatically, it's a big fail and the attack vectors
> are many.
> 
> <sarcasm>I can just see my mother or grandma manually checking the hash of
> a download... </sarcasm>

'make' should check the hash. The binary should check it's own hash. The
operating system should check the hash.

How about if I sell your Grandma an android table loaded only with free 
software, and use the existing infrastructure android provides to only
allow software to be installed that can be integrity-verified from a 
public key that can be downloaded from the blockchain?

Would you pay $50 (or 2 litecoin) more for at tablet with free software
that protects you and your grandma's interests, rather than selling them
to google/apple/microsoft?

I'm working on eventually being able to build hardware for which the 
entire design specifications, from case to cpu core verilog, all they way
up to the pre-installed cryptographic currency wallet(s) are all signed
and released as part of the Debian archive. 

But I need people like you to explain to your Grandma why this hardware
costs more than hardware that monetizes eyeballs and sells your private
information to the highest bidder.