Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from <tamas@bitsofproof.com>) id 1WgcWG-0008Dv-TE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 03 May 2014 16:10:33 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de ([80.237.132.66]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1WgcWC-0004xt-MX for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 03 May 2014 16:10:32 +0000 Received: from [37.143.74.116] (helo=[192.168.2.2]); authenticated by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1WgcW6-00056l-8L; Sat, 03 May 2014 18:10:22 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2E81DA9-47A9-47E5-8B22-81B317400CE3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com> In-Reply-To: <CAJna-HiqBG1+iN+gMiM6F_nXCkJZyC78u9rF=hmdPZm_Yb7VJw@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 18:10:22 +0200 Message-Id: <E2D270BC-F70E-41EA-8773-5332B229C1DB@bitsofproof.com> References: <CACq0ZD6EJnG4iwehfcFU-4AhBiNdtyf7eE9iGW8d6rv6327Eug@mail.gmail.com> <53644F13.1080203@gmail.com> <CACq0ZD7s8tp8GvJhEhZx4T7xMpeZ+tz5HNKQK-p=f=R10NaCmA@mail.gmail.com> <CANOOu=9orMZH6fpTfkO8zgwPDmwpA8WW78EKwSTiw2GXn7UCxA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJna-HiqBG1+iN+gMiM6F_nXCkJZyC78u9rF=hmdPZm_Yb7VJw@mail.gmail.com> To: slush <slush@centrum.cz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1399133428; 15e2c0fc; X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1WgcWC-0004xt-MX Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 May 2014 16:10:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B2E81DA9-47A9-47E5-8B22-81B317400CE3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E3AE7A6-33E2-4764-80BA-55203F5255EF" --Apple-Mail=_8E3AE7A6-33E2-4764-80BA-55203F5255EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 bit has a lot of meanings to geeks, so what. bit means for average people: - something very small, that 100 satoshi is.=20 - part of the name Bitcoin - easy to get conversion 1 coin =3D 1 million bits =3D 1 Bitcoin Regards, Tamas Blummer Founder, CEO http://bitsofproof.com On 03.05.2014, at 18:02, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote: > Excellent points Christophe! >=20 > Although moving to 1e-6 units is fine for me and I see advantages of = doing this, I don't get that people on this mailing list are fine with = calling such unit "bit". It's geeky as hell, ambiguous and confusing.=20 >=20 > slush >=20 >=20 > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Christophe Biocca = <christophe.biocca@gmail.com> wrote: > Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors > understand the topics they're talking about. > Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get horribly > confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the same > units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be > the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding). >=20 > Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't > deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an issue > are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We > understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero > understanding of either. >=20 > Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things: >=20 > - Mining (for transaction validation). > - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even really > exist at the network level). > - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all > backups can be stolen from equally). >=20 > I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I explain > Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here, > because there were arguably no better words to assign to these > concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and is > the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to the > pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the > protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but I've > definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blockchain" > and "blockchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't > come up in beginner explanations). >=20 > It seems downright masochistic to add > yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to the pile > for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to confuse > people? >=20 > On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Aaron Voisine <voisine@gmail.com> = wrote: > > I have to agree with Mike. Human language is surprisingly tolerant = of > > overloading and inference from context. Neurotypical people have no > > problem with it and perceive a software engineer's aversion to it as > > being pedantic and strange. Note that "bits" was a term for a unit = of > > money long before the invention of digital computers. > > > > Aaron > > > > There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole > > government working for you -- Will Rodgers > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Gordon Mohr <gojomo@gmail.com> = wrote: > >> [resend - apologies if duplicate] > >> > >> Microbitcoin is a good-sized unit, workable for everyday = transaction > >> values, with room-to-grow, and a nice relationship to satoshis as = 'cents'. > >> > >> But "bits" has problems as a unit name. > >> > >> "Bits" will be especially problematic whenever people try to = graduate > >> from informal use to understanding the system internals - that is, = when > >> the real "bits" of key sizes, hash sizes, and storage/bandwidth = needs > >> become important. The "bit" as "binary digit" was important enough = that > >> Satoshi named the system after it; that homage gets lost if the = word is > >> muddied with a new retconned meaning that's quite different. > >> > >> Some examples of possible problems: > >> > >> * If "bit" equals "100 satoshis", then the natural-language = unpacking of > >> "bit-coin" is "100 satoshi coin", which runs against all prior = usage. > >> > >> * If people are informed that a "256-bit private key" is what = ultimately > >> controls their balances, it could prompt confusion like, "if each = key > >> has 256-bits, will I need 40 keys to hold 10,000.00 bits?" > >> > >> * When people learn that there are 8 bits to a byte, they may = think, > >> "OK, my wallet holding my 80,000.00 bits will then take up 10 = kilobytes". > >> > >> * When people naturally extend "bit" into "kilobits" to mean "1000 > >> bits", then the new coinage "kilobits" will mean the exact same = amount > >> (100,000 satoshi) as many have already been calling "millibits". > >> > >> I believe it'd be best to pick a new made-up single-syllable word = as a > >> synonym for "microbitcoin", and I've laid out the case for "zib" as = that > >> word at <http://zibcoin.org>. > >> > >> 'Zib' also lends itself to an expressive unicode symbol, '=C6=B5' > >> (Z-with-stroke), that remains distinctive even if it loses its = stroke or > >> gets case-reversed. (Comparatively, all 'b'-derived symbols for > >> data-bits, bitcoins, or '100 satoshi bits' risk collision in = contexts > >> where subtleties of casing/stroking are lost.) > >> > >> (There's summary of more problems with "bit" in the zibcoin.org FAQ = at: > >> <http://zibcoin.org/faq#why-not-bits-to-mean-microbitcoins>.) > >> > >> - Gordon > >> > >> On 5/1/14, 3:35 PM, Aaron Voisine wrote: > >>> I'm also a big fan of standardizing on microBTC as the standard = unit. > >>> I didn't like the name "bits" at first, but the more I think about = it, > >>> the more I like it. The main thing going for it is the fact that = it's > >>> part of the name bitcoin. If Bitcoin is the protocol and network, = bits > >>> are an obvious choice for the currency unit. > >>> > >>> I would like to propose using Unicode character U+0180, lowercase = b > >>> with stroke, as the symbol to represent the microBTC denomination, > >>> whether we call bits or something else: > >>> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0180/index.htm > >>> > >>> Another candidate is Unicode character U+2422, the blank symbol, = but I > >>> prefer stroke b. > >>> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2422/index.htm > >>> > >>> Aaron > >>> > >>> There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole > >>> government working for you -- Will Rodgers > >>> > >>>> On Apr 21, 2014 5:41 AM, "Pieter Wuille" <pieter.wuille@gm...> = wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 21, 2014 3:37 AM, "Un Ix" <slashdevnull@...> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in = common > >>>>> usage I.e. bit. > >>>> > >>>> What units will be called colloquially is not something = developers will > >>>> determine. It will vary, depend on language and culture, and is = not > >>>> relevant to this discussion in my opinion. > >>>> > >>>> It may well be that people in some geographic or language area = will end up > >>>> (or for a while) calling 1e-06 BTC "bits". That's fine, but using = that as > >>>> "official" name in software would be very strange and potentially = confusing > >>>> in my opinion. As mentioned by others, that would seem to me like = calling > >>>> dollars "bucks" in bank software. Nobody seems to have a problem = with > >>>> having colloquial names, but "US dollar" or "euro" are far less = ambiguous > >>>> than "bit". I think we need a more distinctive name. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Pieter > >>> > >>> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > >>> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For = FREE > >>> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. = Get > >>> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available. > >>> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list > >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > >>> > >> > >> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > >> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For = FREE > >> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. = Get > >> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available. > >> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bitcoin-development mailing list > >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For = FREE > > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. = Get > > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available. > > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available. > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get=20= > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available. > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > = http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs_____________________________________________= __ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail=_8E3AE7A6-33E2-4764-80BA-55203F5255EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">bit = has a lot of meanings to geeks, so what.<br><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true"><br></div><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true"> bit means for average people:</div><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">- = something very small, that 100 satoshi is. </div><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true">- part of the name Bitcoin</div><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true">- easy to get conversion 1 coin =3D 1 = million bits =3D 1 Bitcoin<br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; display: inline = !important;">Regards,</span><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br = style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: = 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; = widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Tamas = Blummer</span><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; = widows: 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; = widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Founder, = CEO</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: = 0px;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; = widows: 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: = -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; = widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a = href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span> </span></div> <br><div><div>On 03.05.2014, at 18:02, slush <<a = href=3D"mailto:slush@centrum.cz">slush@centrum.cz</a>> = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Excellent points = Christophe!<div><br></div><div>Although moving to 1e-6 units is fine for = me and I see advantages of doing this, I don't get that people on this = mailing list are fine with calling such unit "bit". It's geeky as hell, = ambiguous and confusing. </div> <div><br></div><div>slush</div></div><div = class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 3, = 2014 at 5:48 PM, Christophe Biocca <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a = href=3D"mailto:christophe.biocca@gmail.com" = target=3D"_blank">christophe.biocca@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 = .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Context as a = disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors<br> understand the topics they're talking about.<br> Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get = horribly<br> confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the = same<br> units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be<br> the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding).<br> <br> Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't<br> deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an = issue<br> are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We<br> understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero<br> understanding of either.<br> <br> Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things:<br> <br> - Mining (for transaction validation).<br> - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even = really<br> exist at the network level).<br> - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all<br> backups can be stolen from equally).<br> <br> I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I = explain<br> Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here,<br> because there were arguably no better words to assign to these<br> concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and = is<br> the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to = the<br> pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the<br> protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but = I've<br> definitiely seen average people get confused between "the = blockchain"<br> and "<a href=3D"http://blockchain.info/" = target=3D"_blank">blockchain.info</a>" (not so much Coinbase, because = that name doesn't<br> come up in beginner explanations).<br> <br> It seems downright masochistic to add<br> yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to the = pile<br> for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to = confuse<br> people?<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Aaron Voisine <<a = href=3D"mailto:voisine@gmail.com">voisine@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> > I have to agree with Mike. Human language is surprisingly tolerant = of<br> > overloading and inference from context. Neurotypical people have = no<br> > problem with it and perceive a software engineer's aversion to it = as<br> > being pedantic and strange. Note that "bits" was a term for a unit = of<br> > money long before the invention of digital computers.<br> ><br> > Aaron<br> ><br> > There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole<br> > government working for you -- Will Rodgers<br> ><br> ><br> > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Gordon Mohr <<a = href=3D"mailto:gojomo@gmail.com">gojomo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> [resend - apologies if duplicate]<br> >><br> >> Microbitcoin is a good-sized unit, workable for everyday = transaction<br> >> values, with room-to-grow, and a nice relationship to satoshis = as 'cents'.<br> >><br> >> But "bits" has problems as a unit name.<br> >><br> >> "Bits" will be especially problematic whenever people try to = graduate<br> >> from informal use to understanding the system internals - that = is, when<br> >> the real "bits" of key sizes, hash sizes, and storage/bandwidth = needs<br> >> become important. The "bit" as "binary digit" was important = enough that<br> >> Satoshi named the system after it; that homage gets lost if the = word is<br> >> muddied with a new retconned meaning that's quite = different.<br> >><br> >> Some examples of possible problems:<br> >><br> >> * If "bit" equals "100 satoshis", then the natural-language = unpacking of<br> >> "bit-coin" is "100 satoshi coin", which runs against all prior = usage.<br> >><br> >> * If people are informed that a "256-bit private key" is what = ultimately<br> >> controls their balances, it could prompt confusion like, "if = each key<br> >> has 256-bits, will I need 40 keys to hold 10,000.00 bits?"<br> >><br> >> * When people learn that there are 8 bits to a byte, they may = think,<br> >> "OK, my wallet holding my 80,000.00 bits will then take up 10 = kilobytes".<br> >><br> >> * When people naturally extend "bit" into "kilobits" to mean = "1000<br> >> bits", then the new coinage "kilobits" will mean the exact same = amount<br> >> (100,000 satoshi) as many have already been calling = "millibits".<br> >><br> >> I believe it'd be best to pick a new made-up single-syllable = word as a<br> >> synonym for "microbitcoin", and I've laid out the case for = "zib" as that<br> >> word at <<a href=3D"http://zibcoin.org/" = target=3D"_blank">http://zibcoin.org</a>>.<br> >><br> >> 'Zib' also lends itself to an expressive unicode symbol, = '=C6=B5'<br> >> (Z-with-stroke), that remains distinctive even if it loses its = stroke or<br> >> gets case-reversed. (Comparatively, all 'b'-derived symbols = for<br> >> data-bits, bitcoins, or '100 satoshi bits' risk collision in = contexts<br> >> where subtleties of casing/stroking are lost.)<br> >><br> >> (There's summary of more problems with "bit" in the <a = href=3D"http://zibcoin.org/" target=3D"_blank">zibcoin.org</a> FAQ = at:<br> >> <<a = href=3D"http://zibcoin.org/faq#why-not-bits-to-mean-microbitcoins" = target=3D"_blank">http://zibcoin.org/faq#why-not-bits-to-mean-microbitcoin= s</a>>.)<br> >><br> >> - Gordon<br> >><br> >> On 5/1/14, 3:35 PM, Aaron Voisine wrote:<br> >>> I'm also a big fan of standardizing on microBTC as the = standard unit.<br> >>> I didn't like the name "bits" at first, but the more I = think about it,<br> >>> the more I like it. The main thing going for it is the fact = that it's<br> >>> part of the name bitcoin. If Bitcoin is the protocol and = network, bits<br> >>> are an obvious choice for the currency unit.<br> >>><br> >>> I would like to propose using Unicode character U+0180, = lowercase b<br> >>> with stroke, as the symbol to represent the microBTC = denomination,<br> >>> whether we call bits or something else:<br> >>> <a = href=3D"http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0180/index.htm" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0180/index.= htm</a><br> >>><br> >>> Another candidate is Unicode character U+2422, the blank = symbol, but I<br> >>> prefer stroke b.<br> >>> <a = href=3D"http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2422/index.htm" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2422/index.= htm</a><br> >>><br> >>> Aaron<br> >>><br> >>> There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the = whole<br> >>> government working for you -- Will Rodgers<br> >>><br> >>>> On Apr 21, 2014 5:41 AM, "Pieter Wuille" = <pieter.wuille@gm...> wrote:<br> >>>><br> >>>>> On Apr 21, 2014 3:37 AM, "Un Ix" = <slashdevnull@...> wrote:<br> >>>>><br> >>>>> Something tells me this would be reduced to a = single syllable in common<br> >>>>> usage I.e. bit.<br> >>>><br> >>>> What units will be called colloquially is not something = developers will<br> >>>> determine. It will vary, depend on language and = culture, and is not<br> >>>> relevant to this discussion in my opinion.<br> >>>><br> >>>> It may well be that people in some geographic or = language area will end up<br> >>>> (or for a while) calling 1e-06 BTC "bits". That's fine, = but using that as<br> >>>> "official" name in software would be very strange and = potentially confusing<br> >>>> in my opinion. As mentioned by others, that would seem = to me like calling<br> >>>> dollars "bucks" in bank software. Nobody seems to have = a problem with<br> >>>> having colloquial names, but "US dollar" or "euro" are = far less ambiguous<br> >>>> than "bit". I think we need a more distinctive = name.<br> >>>><br> >>>> --<br> >>>> Pieter<br> >>><br> >>> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----<br> >>> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing = - For FREE<br> >>> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS = combos. 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Get<br> >> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing = platform available.<br> >> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for = free."<br> >> <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs" = target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs</a><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> >> <a = href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-developm= ent@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> >> <a = href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" = target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev= elopment</a><br> ><br> > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----<br> > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For = FREE<br> > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. = Get<br> > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform = available.<br> > Simple to use. Nothing to install. 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Get started now for free."<br> <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs" = target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> <a = href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-developm= ent@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> <a = href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" = target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev= elopment</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----<br>"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - = For FREE<br>Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS = combos. Get <br>unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium = testing platform available.<br>Simple to use. Nothing to install. 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