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From: "Ferdinando M. Ametrano" <ferdinando@ametrano.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:38:19 +0100
Message-ID: <CADfmNEkJfvefTaAg42PU5DWu1PLJhXxptVY69yVJNRCdx4fuBQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Against proprietary and PoR fields in PSBT BIP174
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After having checked that the BIP174 test vectors do not cover the
*proprietary* and *proof-of-reserves* types, I went ahead and submitted a
PR to the bips repo for the removal of those fields from the PSBT
specifications

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1038

--
*Ferdinando M. Ametrano*
www.ametrano.net/about


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:01 AM Ferdinando M. Ametrano <
ferdinando@ametrano.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> While implementing PSBT support in the *btclib* library (
> https://github.com/btclib-org/btclib), I have failed to understand the
> rationale for the *proprietary* and *proof-of-reserves* types.
>
> First off, at face value they have nothing to do with the operations
> intrinsically required to finalize a valid transaction from PSBT
> manipulation.
>
> Moreover, whatever information content they can provide for non-standard
> PSBT manipulation, that content could stay in the *unknown* field without
> any loss of generality. How to structure and deal with unknown data would
> be the responsibility of proprietary software or users wanting to provide
> proof-of-reserve. As long as BIP174 clearly prescribes that unknown data
> must be kept during PSBT manipulation, that should be enough.
>
> Let me stress the above point: I have a project where we include
> proprietary information in the PSBT. Any PSBT software supporting unknown
> data gently keeps our proprietary information and our proprietary software
> retrieves that data from serialized PSBT with no problem. There is no need
> for a PSBT implementation to provide explicit support for *proprietary*
> and *proof-of-reserves* types.
>
> My last conclusion is reinforced by the evidence of all PSBT
> implementations I know of, including bitcoin core and HWI, not implementing
> proprietary and proof-of-reserve types. There is a high probability that
> part of BIP174 would be just ignored.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks
> --
> *Ferdinando M. Ametrano*
> www.ametrano.net/about
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"verd=
ana, sans-serif">After having=C2=A0checked that the BIP174 test vectors do =
not cover the=C2=A0<i style=3D"">proprietary</i>=C2=A0and=C2=A0<i style=3D"=
">proof-of-reserves</i>=C2=A0types, I went ahead and=C2=A0submitted a PR to=
 the bips repo=C2=A0for the removal of those fields from the PSBT specifica=
tions</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"ver=
dana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">=
<a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1038" target=3D"_blank" sty=
le=3D""><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/=
pull/1038</font></a><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"verdana, san=
s-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">--<br></f=
ont></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font size=3D"1" face=3D"verdana, sans-seri=
f"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;line-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,3=
3);display:block"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;line-height:12px;di=
splay:block"><b>Ferdinando M. Ametrano</b></span></span></font></div><div><=
span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:10px;line-height:12px;color:=
rgb(33,33,33);display:block"><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:sm=
all"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(1=
7,85,204)"><a href=3D"https://www.ametrano.net/about" style=3D"font-size:10=
px;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">www.ametrano.net/about</a></font=
></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:01 AM Ferdinando M. Ametrano &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:ferdinando@ametrano.net" target=3D"_blank">ferdinando@ametrano.=
net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, san=
s-serif">Hi all,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"ver=
dana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=
=3D"verdana, sans-serif">While implementing PSBT support in the <i>btclib</=
i> library (<a href=3D"https://github.com/btclib-org/btclib" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://github.com/btclib-org/btclib</a>), I have failed to understand =
the rationale for the <i>proprietary</i> and <i>proof-of-reserves</i> types=
.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-seri=
f"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, san=
s-serif">First off, at face value they have nothing to do with=C2=A0the ope=
rations intrinsically required to  finalize a valid transaction from PSBT m=
anipulation.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana=
, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"v=
erdana, sans-serif">Moreover, whatever information content they can provide=
 for non-standard PSBT manipulation, that content could stay in the <i>unkn=
own</i> field without any loss of generality. How to structure and deal wit=
h unknown data would be the responsibility=C2=A0of proprietary=C2=A0softwar=
e or users wanting to provide proof-of-reserve. As long as BIP174 clearly p=
rescribes that unknown=C2=A0data must be kept during PSBT manipulation, tha=
t should be enough.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"=
verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font fa=
ce=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Let me stress the above point: I have a project =
where we include proprietary information in the PSBT. Any PSBT software sup=
porting unknown data gently keeps our proprietary information and our propr=
ietary software retrieves that data from serialized PSBT with no problem. T=
here is no need for a PSBT implementation to provide explicit support for=
=C2=A0<i>proprietary</i> and <i>proof-of-reserves</i> types.</font></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default"></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font f=
ace=3D"verdana, sans-serif">My last conclusion is reinforced by the evidenc=
e of all PSBT implementations I know of, including bitcoin core and HWI, no=
t implementing proprietary and proof-of-reserve types. There is a high prob=
ability that part of BIP174 would be just ignored.</font></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Am I missing so=
mething?</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sa=
ns-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verda=
na, sans-serif">Thanks</font></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">--<br></font></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><font size=3D"1" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><span sty=
le=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;line-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,33);display:b=
lock"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;line-height:12px;display:block"=
><b>Ferdinando M. Ametrano</b></span></span></font></div><div><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:10px;line-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,=
33);display:block"><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:small"><font=
 face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(17,85,204)"=
><a href=3D"https://www.ametrano.net/about" style=3D"font-size:10px;color:r=
gb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">www.ametrano.net/about</a></font></div></s=
pan></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
>
</blockquote></div>

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