Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C69BC002D for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 22:06:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F4242438 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 22:06:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 45F4242438 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, MONEY_NOHTML=2.499, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVqlN26bZVJw for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 22:06:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 3478A414CC Received: from azure.erisian.com.au (azure.erisian.com.au [172.104.61.193]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3478A414CC for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 22:06:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aj@azure.erisian.com.au (helo=sapphire.erisian.com.au) by azure.erisian.com.au with esmtpsa (Exim 4.92 #3 (Debian)) id 1o9Zdc-00087R-BS; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 08:06:22 +1000 Received: by sapphire.erisian.com.au (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 08 Jul 2022 08:06:14 +1000 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 08:06:14 +1000 From: Anthony Towns To: Peter Todd , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: <20220707220614.GA20899@erisian.com.au> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score-int: -18 X-Spam-Bar: - Cc: John Carvalho Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 22:06:25 -0000 On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:12:41AM -0400, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > We should not imbue real technology with magical qualities. That's much more fun if you invert it, and take it as a mission statement. Advance technology sufficiently! > The fact of the matter is that the present amount of security is about 1.= 7% of > the total coin supply/year, and Bitcoin seems to be working fine. 1.7% is= also > already an amount low enough that it's much smaller than economic volatil= ity. >=20 > Obviously 0% is too small. >=20 > There's zero reason to stress about finding an "optimal" amount. An amoun= t low > enough to be easily affordable, but non-zero, is fine. 1% would be fine; = 0.5% > would probably be fine; 0.1% would probably be fine. For comparison, 0.1% of 21M BTC per annum is 0.4 BTC per block, which is about 50sat/vb if blocks are 800kvB on average. Doing that purely with fees seems within the ballpark of feasibility to me. 50sat/vb for a 200vb tx (roughly the size of a 2-in, 2-out p2wpkh/p2tr tx) is $2 at $20k/BTC, $10 at $100k/BTC, $100 at $1M/BTC etc. If the current block reward of ~1.7% pa of 19M at a price of $20k funds the current level of mining activity, then you'd expect a similar level of mining activity as today with reward at 0.1% pa of 21M at a price of ~$310k. Going by the halving schedule, the block subsidy alone will remain above 0.1% of supply until we hit the 0.39 BTC/block regime, in 2036, at which point it drops to ~0.0986% annualised. (I guess you could extend that by four years if you're willing to assume more than 1.5% of bitcoin supply has been permanently lost) Cheers, aj