Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Vh4t5-0004F5-27 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:55:43 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 74.125.82.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.48; envelope-from=allen.piscitello@gmail.com; helo=mail-wg0-f48.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f48.google.com ([74.125.82.48]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Vh4t3-0007na-NO for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:55:43 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id n12so2684238wgh.3 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.221.38 with SMTP id qb6mr4808536wic.8.1384466135489; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.190.133 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52853D8A.6010501@monetize.io> References: <52852C2D.9020103@gmail.com> <52853D8A.6010501@monetize.io> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:55:35 -0600 Message-ID: From: Allen Piscitello To: Mark Friedenbach Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134d2da35a32f04eb2a24dd X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (allen.piscitello[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Vh4t3-0007na-NO Cc: Bitcoin Development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:55:43 -0000 --001a1134d2da35a32f04eb2a24dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I also would prefer to go straight to uBTC as the "standard wallet unit". It works out perfectly with Satoshi's being the decimal units. Something that costs $10USD would be 25000uBTC. This isn't a problem for a place like South Korea, where 10USD is about 10,000 Won, so we aren't even off on a scale of usable currencies in major economies. The downsides are obviously confusion (causing mistakes resulting in lost coins), and possibly from a psychological perspective on price (uBTC are worthless!). On the other hand, it also might help people feel like they are getting in on the ground floor still (I own 100,000 uBTC!), and reduce the perception the Bitcoins are not divisible (I have heard several people worry that 21 million is not enough units). Alan's ideas for compatibility with multiple fields will also be helpful to solving the confusion issue. On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mark Friedenbach wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to > uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to > the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new > national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale > everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~= $0.01 currently. And I don't think very > many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long > term perspective. > > Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once. > > Mark > > On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > > ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the > > base unit in such an established system. There is no easy way to > > do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) > Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJShT2JAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4DXAQAIJTNbpwBGTXuFyaxXQULf20 > hMs7OlQZSOZOdsmSiPv2augxzbpa2DhhZjiosrScSBCjxMeYd4S6WgTt/b8moAYR > HD8pm88JyCKDOd7bOmzTkgDOTBBFfH+islmOY9VTdeKGHeOHH6yyLMKwnUpa+S89 > 4YtdzlIXAtfT37dpR5E4cHPmAYCbrRsNOB6j5ohVl2VqRou2vkwoJr/YvaW54M8i > ucIZyai2qjNWyJLcZC9QWi9Yw/W/n9QYE2mHyL0qWNaIrZVn6WGty8KpYq+i7aeU > 4N4UdtLT7FAhWYec9nmEec868WsUsd+H3/WSWViMinUKO4YA3cyxWDL7MTmTRsci > g0R4WGYCzMM3cEWz5ycf5KEBPH/nDlbqFmEartTffqKXgrK5Ohhw+28Iqw5KcDX8 > SVx34lw2yHWmTeIMY8d3qYKqBdcsvixDUD3xvq+ZqEIa+bZw12s4LIzqmir84TB8 > fB4bdq5GddXX0PK4pboXL+Nib0OVK72YgYnVs/ejlBmeiG8Ixoz4/ygR5MHm8jcw > tSiwH0xohOJWg3lJj0vZorubXoECcOqwPzsZkwnT9irbrvOuk2jCPvrkEC8U9fgA > XHgirStS49/lI/iUWrRchoTt5iuwG18G4+E81V/DMsrSkYlipuf2DlEXiapn3hWz > ccP053+6o5Rgpc7J1aa0 > =QW1i > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps > OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access > Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server. > Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --001a1134d2da35a32f04eb2a24dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also would prefer to go straight to uBTC as the "st= andard wallet unit". =A0 =A0It works out perfectly with Satoshi's = being the decimal units. =A0Something that costs $10USD would be 25000uBTC.= =A0This isn't a problem for a place like South Korea, where 10USD is a= bout 10,000 Won, so we aren't even off on a scale of usable currencies = in major economies.

The downsides are obviously confusion (causing mistakes resulting in lo= st coins), and possibly from a psychological perspective on price (uBTC are= worthless!). =A0On the other hand, it also might help people feel like the= y are getting in on the ground floor still (I own 100,000 uBTC!), and reduc= e the perception the Bitcoins are not divisible (I have heard several peopl= e worry that 21 million is not enough units).

Alan's ideas for compatibility with multiple fields= will also be helpful to solving the confusion issue.

<= /div>


On Thu, = Nov 14, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize.io> = wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to
the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new
national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale
everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~=3D $0.01 currently. And I don't think ver= y
many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long
term perspective.

Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once.

Mark

On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
> ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to cha= nge the
> base unit in such an established system. =A0There is= no easy way to
> do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's wort= h...
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Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)
Comment: GPGTools - http:= //gpgtools.org
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native = Apps
OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access
Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server. Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D63469471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
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