Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WNmJy-0001yG-Tt for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:47:58 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.154 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.154; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148154.authsmtp.co.uk; Received: from outmail148154.authsmtp.co.uk ([62.13.148.154]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1WNmJx-00081r-Pn for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:47:58 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id s2CGloRS027628; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:47:50 GMT Received: from savin (76-10-178-109.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.178.109]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id s2CGlkK5092961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:47:48 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:47:50 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: Mike Hearn Message-ID: <20140312164750.GA8199@savin> References: <4fca6b510dd57d2f92affeb988d2ee5d.squirrel@fulvetta.riseup.net> <531FAA55.2020108@xeno-genesis.com> <531FC808.7060709@gmail.com> <9A6499BC-E546-45CC-A7EF-5182FC86052D@gmail.com> <53202D51.8010008@plan99.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: 0bbfd96f-aa06-11e3-b802-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdwAUFVQGAgsB AmIbWlJeVFp7XWo7 bAxPbAVDY01GQQRq WVdMSlVNFUsrA292 WkVlVxl7dQxAeTBx ZkdmVj5bDhYsIU97 FFMFRG0AeGZhPWMC AkhYdR5UcAFPdx8U a1UrBXRDAzANdhES HhM4ODE3eDlSNilR RRkIIFQOdA4uAzog RgsDEjNnBUQUQig1 M1Q+MFkAG00WNhJa X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 76.10.178.109/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1WNmJx-00081r-Pn Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Multisign payment protocol? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:47:59 -0000 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 05:41:33PM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote: > > > > Partially signed and multisig transactions within bitcoind go through > > the raw transaction API, which does absolutely nothing if the sig > > pushes the TX to a higher fee level. >=20 >=20 > Well, we'll have to make sure this is carefully and loudly documented in > the new developer part of the website that's being worked on. Because this > seems like a recipe for people writing flaky apps. In practice it would > seem like you need to implement the fee loop in your own app: >=20 > 1) Create tx with an estimated fee level > 2) Add signatures > 3) Submit. If REJECT for too low fees, increment, go to 1 and try again. Why? It's the raw transaction API and Bitcoin Core wallet. What should be carefully and loudly documented is the simple advice "Don't use to hold customer funds; use Bitcoinj or something instead." followed by a warning that SPV isn't secure enough for a business unless you run your own full node. The raw transaction API has no support to handle fees at all. --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00000000000000008aebcc3db3f73302ba290392eb783c509c5c7c4dd3971136 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) iQGrBAEBCACVBQJTII+tXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDA4YWViY2MzZGIzZjczMzAyYmEyOTAzOTJlYjc4M2M1MDlj NWM3YzRkZDM5NzExMzYvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfvJ0Qf/Yp7zzBGsFzvnZ5eWldqHKWVe 2mslod6Gm2qknjEWMao+c++VIBgnx5G+P6GkXDaLnMafQ3yfLRmI6+EsQYKCavZF tvoY2l2TB3vhW1Gu0MdKwgf84yHiPpMYIQA8e8sPq8FNBI4YUExZDnpRvPsesi3W jylFlsEBqXpvt9dtxyh1rzmch7kyZ62bCBMs5SXK4ijDHQXocBThFoBoloIYcKBe 4wGo4xwNrCXJQM+OrOiCHlZTXhEuelbWj1aaHB2aUqOLUXRmCwoUOZ1rJpjhP8S/ TJcEE2jEeJGdDsAfKZE4vzuSgy+7nTdNvoblVNFAaC9Dl7irl8GJx51tHoTUpw== =nllj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy--