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From: Lucas Ontivero <lucasontivero@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 01:50:54 -0300
Message-ID: <CALHvQn1pTUeqhgq8pkFEAmmjN+vWk6QUS2hW_jNNfwbCPW4D_Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1137281c2b36ef054beb704d
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A BIP proposal for segwit addresses
Precedence: list

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I don't know if i should response to this mail list or make a comment in
commit file (
https://github.com/sipa/bech32/commit/52b5a0fa6d3174c4150393fb7d6b58d34b4f5e0b#diff-d23a42e5c904045098e8f8b1189f481e
)

* Motivation:

Here I think it could worth to mention that 58 requires mathematical
operations over big numbers. This is not very fast and most of the
programming languages don't provide support for big numbers OOB.

* Why not make an address format that is generic for all scriptPubKeys?:

I understand that if a new generic encoding format is introduced that could
lead to some confusions but what if in the future there is a new type of
address that can also be encoded with bech32? Don't we need a address type
anyway?

thx


2017-03-29 7:07 GMT-03:00 Andreas Schildbach via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:

> On 03/21/2017 08:14 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 05:16:30PM +0100, Andreas Schildbach via
> bitcoin-dev wrote:
> >> Why use Base 32 when the QR code alphanumeric mode allows 44 characters?
> >> In Bitcoin Wallet, I use Base 43 (alphabet:
> >> "0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ$*+-./:") for most efficient QR
> >> code encoding. I only leave out the space character because it gets
> >> replaced by "+" in URLs.
> >
> > Doing that only makes addresses a few % shorter, at the cost of
> significant
> > downsides.  For example, not everyone knows what those additional
> characters
> > are called, particularly for non-English-speaking users. Non-alphanumeric
> > characters also complicate using the addresses in a variety of contexts
> ('/'
> > in particularly isn't valid in filenames).
>
> I'm not convinced that transmitting addresses via voice should be a
> usecase to target at. I don't understand your comment about non-english
> speaking users. Obviously they cannot voice-communicate at all with
> only-english-speaking users, so there is no need to communicate
> voice-communicate addresses between them.
>
> Addresses in QR codes, addresses in URLs and addresses in NFC NDEF
> messages are the three most used forms.
>
> Speaking of URLs, actually Base 32 (as well as Base 43) makes QR codes
> *bigger* because due to the characters used for URL parameters (?&=)
> those QR codes are locked to binary mode. To make them shorter, we'd
> need to use something like "Base 64url" (or ideally Base 94 -- all
> printable ASCII characters).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t know if i should response to this mail list or=
 make a comment in commit file (<a href=3D"https://github.com/sipa/bech32/c=
ommit/52b5a0fa6d3174c4150393fb7d6b58d34b4f5e0b#diff-d23a42e5c904045098e8f8b=
1189f481e">https://github.com/sipa/bech32/commit/52b5a0fa6d3174c4150393fb7d=
6b58d34b4f5e0b#diff-d23a42e5c904045098e8f8b1189f481e</a>)<br><br>* Motivati=
on:<div><br></div><div>Here I think it could worth to mention that 58 requi=
res mathematical operations over big numbers. This is not very fast and mos=
t of the programming languages don&#39;t provide support for big numbers OO=
B.<br><br>* Why not make an address format that is generic for all scriptPu=
bKeys?:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I understand that if a new generic e=
ncoding format is introduced that could lead to some confusions but what if=
 in the future there is a new type of address that can also be encoded with=
 bech32? Don&#39;t we need a address type anyway?</div><div><br></div><div>=
thx</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">2017-03-29 7:07 GMT-03:00 Andreas Schildbach via bitcoin-dev <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span>:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 03/21/2017 08:14 PM, =
Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br>
&gt; On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 05:16:30PM +0100, Andreas Schildbach via bitco=
in-dev wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Why use Base 32 when the QR code alphanumeric mode allows 44 chara=
cters?<br>
&gt;&gt; In Bitcoin Wallet, I use Base 43 (alphabet:<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;<wbr>0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST<wbr>UVWXYZ$*+-./:&quot;)=
 for most efficient QR<br>
&gt;&gt; code encoding. I only leave out the space character because it get=
s<br>
&gt;&gt; replaced by &quot;+&quot; in URLs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Doing that only makes addresses a few % shorter, at the cost of signif=
icant<br>
&gt; downsides.=C2=A0 For example, not everyone knows what those additional=
 characters<br>
&gt; are called, particularly for non-English-speaking users. Non-alphanume=
ric<br>
&gt; characters also complicate using the addresses in a variety of context=
s (&#39;/&#39;<br>
&gt; in particularly isn&#39;t valid in filenames).<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;m not convinced that transmitting addresses via voice should b=
e a<br>
usecase to target at. I don&#39;t understand your comment about non-english=
<br>
speaking users. Obviously they cannot voice-communicate at all with<br>
only-english-speaking users, so there is no need to communicate<br>
voice-communicate addresses between them.<br>
<br>
Addresses in QR codes, addresses in URLs and addresses in NFC NDEF<br>
messages are the three most used forms.<br>
<br>
Speaking of URLs, actually Base 32 (as well as Base 43) makes QR codes<br>
*bigger* because due to the characters used for URL parameters (?&amp;=3D)<=
br>
those QR codes are locked to binary mode. To make them shorter, we&#39;d<br=
>
need to use something like &quot;Base 64url&quot; (or ideally Base 94 -- al=
l<br>
printable ASCII characters).<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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