Return-Path: <elombrozo@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57067721
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:08:50 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-pd0-f174.google.com (mail-pd0-f174.google.com
	[209.85.192.174])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3599149
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by pdjr16 with SMTP id r16so4721185pdj.3
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
	h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
	:message-id:references:to;
	bh=bS1TsKAq7jcoIsm3IoTUNw//XXYohmIZJhlrA+O7rLc=;
	b=Um7dWl8GhUj/xKCmw6JpejurGbiUWsCeufLeW3ivT++yxSRfEPNpGoTwG+RKmTpi94
	Jq0Z74YGazDo3m2GFhA7kZbsFcNvQKvujfL7Mbaw8p7xiH8hTQKtu+UZ6gUv8w4ggirh
	MJX7tg8k3OE17HitbHzVEC4JrmUrRG149ijO1gzYJUTteO3jqSSMDpU8D7FCHpGHGRVz
	XdBkO71p0G9+pDCEQjvuKfVcmupztpxrfEeNBWV/M/bpADQ9uOdMpPMAJzx4qXx9qEQm
	tn9qhNcGgrBpkNXPMF8WX7vr4w3MbQQhlzm+eDSsCzu0bsMuF9v7eJ1Ac+VHBHnk8Xxj
	yY+A==
X-Received: by 10.70.36.1 with SMTP id m1mr24124096pdj.121.1437700129521;
	Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.107] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com.
	[76.167.237.202])
	by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f3sm1364595pat.31.2015.07.23.18.08.47
	(version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
	Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\))
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_E1F4813F-3A7B-49BA-9D83-BC710FEFEAEF";
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6
From: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <DFA3CCE4-52F7-4D63-8982-2EB133AB6EAA@me.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:08:45 -0700
Message-Id: <B8F9DE4B-A8AA-490D-991B-11C28B2AA527@gmail.com>
References: <CAPg+sBgs-ouEMu=LOVCmOyCGwfM1Ygxooz0shyvAuHDGGZYfJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABm2gDq3JyZx0QCRDbcNSLSOBKdpi4h_7VN1XL8N42U38+eBAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com>
	<CABsx9T1MTc-GmuQyFN1vaFK=CDWV_L214Pi9nR6jLMouQQD0fw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5A70F53-4779-457A-A06A-686877706F89@gmail.com>
	<CADL_X_exckh5T2BfzPEp26fPR3TD69QarwroDEdS_9wtnKbf+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6F436293-9E2B-461C-B105-FC4CF9EBFC69@gmail.com>
	<CADL_X_fs3-Zj-9nHu5HXCS=kNFUTJkrUR_8SL+d+M4ziwB66Jw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABm2gDqFe+_g5Mk=tXCD94x74pu6SiL+XHhMM-T3bBw78m3Mow@mail.gmail.com>
	<D161F6BB-BFB1-4B9F-B024-D60A170F393C@gmail.com>
	<CALqmWPC8PdSPS3chhnjBaTixrvvg0VrEaXzd3OvbXifkMs0DUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<42BF7FEB-320F-43BE-B3D9-1D76CB8B9975@gmai> <l.com@mac.com>
	<D472C05D-7164-4ED1-B571-94415AD8E60F@gmail.com>
	<346D4CE0-E00D-4ABB-B131-EFA1416CB20C@me.com>
	<29363BE6-72A7-4D06-A974-C52BA12FD8BD@gmail.com>
	<55FFBC8F-A3C9-4109-89C7-AC359FBBD478@me.com>
	<4734381C-2000-4D9B-9099-DDE3D38D64A3@me.com>
	<DEF9C610-2FBC-40C1-9AFA-9E91903C7F96@petertodd.org>
	<DFA3CCE4-52F7-4D63-8982-2EB133AB6EAA@me.com>
To: Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098)
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM,
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:08:50 -0000


--Apple-Mail=_E1F4813F-3A7B-49BA-9D83-BC710FEFEAEF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8

By using third parties separate from individual miners that do bidding =
on your behalf you get a mechanism that allows QoS guarantees and =
shifting the complexity and risk from the wallet with little =
computational resources to a service with abundance of them. Using =
timelocked contracts it=E2=80=99s possible to enforce the guarantees.

Negotiating directly with miners via smart contracts seems difficult at =
best.


> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> Doesn't matter.
>=20
> It's not going to be perfect given the block time variance among other =
factors but it's far more workable than guessing whether or not your =
transaction is going to end up in a block at all.
>=20
> jp
>=20
>=20
>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 23 July 2015 20:49:20 GMT-04:00, Jean-Paul Kogelman via =
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> And it's obvious how a size cap would interfere with such a QoS =
scheme.
>>> Miners wouldn't be able to deliver the below guarantees if they have =
to
>>> start excluding transactions.
>>=20
>> As mining is a random, poisson process, obviously giving guarantees =
without a majority of hashing power isn't possible.
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>=20
>> iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJVsYyK
>> AAoJEMCF8hzn9Lnc47AH/28WlecQLb37CiJpcvXO9tC4zqYEodurtB9nBHTSJrug
>> VIEXZW53pSTdd3vv2qpGIlHxuYP8QmDSATztwQLuN6XWEszz7TO8MXBfLxKqZyGu
>> i83WqSGjMAfwqjl0xR1G7PJgt4+E+0vaAFZc98vLCgZnedbiXRVtTGjhofG1jjTc
>> DFMwMZHP0eqWTwtWwqUvnA7PTFHxdqoJruY/t1KceN+JDbBCJWMxBDswU64FXcVH
>> 0ecsk9nhLMyylBX/2v4HjCXyayocH8jQ+FpLSP0xxERyS+f1npFX9cxFMq24uXqn
>> PcnZfLfaSJ6gMbmhbYG5wYDKN3u732j7dLzSJnMW6jk=3D
>> =3DLY1+
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


--Apple-Mail=_E1F4813F-3A7B-49BA-9D83-BC710FEFEAEF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
	name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org
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=RVAm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_E1F4813F-3A7B-49BA-9D83-BC710FEFEAEF--