From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <36BCB402-E236-41D7-8211-7DCDF0F34243@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF";
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:47:09 +0200
In-Reply-To: <38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com>
To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com>
	<BF027CD0-FE29-4DD1-AB96-DE92B597AD18@gmail.com>
	<3F46CDD5-DA80-49C8-A51F-8066680EF347@voskuil.org>
	<A4A6099F-F115-4CBF-B7D5-F16581476126@gmail.com>
	<063D7C06-F5D8-425B-80CE-CAE03A1AAD0C@voskuil.org>
	<0AA10217-E1CC-46D1-9B43-038CEEF942CD@gmail.com>
	<E72C4A8E-F850-400B-B19B-7D06B8A169EC@voskuil.org>
	<0Bwi2ejRw4BgoABZ0X0kBdwLAkIKEv1svoyi0zqGQPeqV1g8xR43tBMgYoS52Vcxkgj7DndmNLIje40au51trIGTvrpcet8GivTgqysVC8w=@protonmail.com>
	<0190F226-7133-4B6D-8750-25CAB5C73D17@gmail.com>
	<7E8yyDSqmXEfFtcZRx2vdmPuovamf67X6aDHrokgaYScm01zPivVKpI3Br2PrzBdVdvKBqECP96EFB5ebT8sPfMWU8npJwS_wujFs00bcqU=@protonmail.com>
	<38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable
 riskless or risky lending,
 prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
Precedence: list


--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

Hello ZmnSCPxj,

I share your goal to move everything possible off-chain.

The discussion of covenant is not an on/off-chain discussion, but if =
covenant is needed to solve problems we currently can not and which =
unlock significant innovation.

Consensus support of the covenant is only needed if an unchained setup =
using it is closed uncooperatively, otherwise there is not even a reason =
to disclose on-chain that a covenant was used.

Regards,

Tamas Blummer

> On Jul 2, 2019, at 11:30, Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello ZmnSCPxj,
>=20
>> On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:12, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> As a counterargument, I observe that committing to the advertisement =
on the UTXO is similar to committing to a SCRIPT on a UTXO.
>> And I observe the Graftroot idea, wherein we commit to a public key =
on the UTXO, and admit a SCRIPT that is signed by the public key as a =
SCRIPT that unlocks the UTXO for spending.
>>=20
>> By analogy, in my "advertising" scheme, instead of committing the =
advertisement on the UTXO, I can instead commit a public key (for =
example, the hash of the "advertiser pubkey" is used to tweak the =
onchain public key).
>> Then we use this advertiser pubkey to admit advertisements on the =
advertising network.
>>=20
>> This advertiser pubkey is used to sign an "advertisement chain", =
which is a merklized singly-linked list whose contents are the actual =
advertisements, each node being signed using the advertiser pubkey.
>> To ensure that the advertiser does not sign multiple versions of this =
chain, we can have the signing nonce be derived from the height of the =
advertchain, such that signing the same height multiple times leads to =
private key revelation.
>=20
> The advertiser would thereby put the funds of the HODLer on risk of =
his misbehavior, which means the HODLer would have to trust the =
advertizing service.
> This is not the trustless separation the covenant achives.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Tamas Blummer
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
	name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAl0bKB0ACgkQ9nKRxRdx
ORwEOAf+NPe1ugzzTSSj2dmuRj4NA106y3mxa47/kcHKO9lcMFMF8N/aryr7x7ir
eKC3fLyX1j1c7c7X1ZBWlVfvZA0fbAlU2rXtLTTSG2D2CwATU5QAdhDKZNa0lvTH
R3VhYmxmUPa0HjRHcMIX/6ZSxyXWW0kjO1bxg0+cXAT35MkGlaXcuioTVRgbLYNw
UBDiLCanX+2UwsJpZJLTp+cBrjGYprBQPxEIsaQzIsr1sLrXz5CFHsNLFr3VX1Di
MHbgR1xOLIhcs5oLrpnloGoXwx3+IKw9zwOM1he1z8YSf9MVPpe8IcuGIigwZ+A4
xwIlb2NfBlrksMJ2ylLZiK20Mvf6mA==
=PpIq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF--