Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A540BA0 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 05:07:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-io0-f173.google.com (mail-io0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47A99169 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 05:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iofh134 with SMTP id h134so210128852iof.0 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:07:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=n5M5ut9uX6YEnbUzcy8rMAW7DMfIpUAH8qkSvjUjXts=; b=LqY9FLK3h+IJ4nUjQjOavnAtlmGCcF1NT8RoLl5Zg7ClQsJhC8ltsQH+kh1G8YlzKZ 9CXwAkkZwRh+YEpuznI0Y/9dQPWgtZaPXgBLFKw99IaQgQGmj/6gcne1FEowO5Mal2K/ WZdOOTt6YcVya5U8zQHlfb0i+ABTeosOySblF+pqAp1yG1wrHWuPI+YjG1eFVph6owJz pt7OiKKoLvYTjKE3F/SCzW0q2UEDUN977NVP2odsPvCqTlzJJme+lhJbOvgZ6xUS6TJi Z9Xo4H5oPIkXxvLJJa1+YLKwdEt/PR2BhWuEP/z1xX82zmuUM8LWbSHTDXmB6LvcN4rU mzIQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.132.21 with SMTP id g21mr38478187iod.175.1444108064799; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.223.164 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:07:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8EF9A9A8-3EBE-4427-9745-1C494DF12E9A@gmx.com> References: <1489086.kGfJeeyi4a@garp> <2081461.sDX5ARzIdv@garp> <561325D4.5030800@thinlink.com> <8EF9A9A8-3EBE-4427-9745-1C494DF12E9A@gmx.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 01:07:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: NotMike Hearn To: Peter R Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ed2a43841090521689c6f X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork technical debate X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 05:07:46 -0000 --001a113ed2a43841090521689c6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Peter R via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > On Oct 5, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > > On 10/5/2015 1:56 PM, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >> In this case, I don't even believe we have any regulator contributors > >> that disagree. > > > > Since Gavin Andresen chose you to be one of 4 people who decides whose > > contributions are accepted to the Core project, shouldn't you recuse > > yourself from referencing "regular contributor" as some kind of bar to > > an opinion being worthy? > > > > You don't want to be accused of squelching a person's opinions by > > nacking or sitting on commits, then turning around and branding those > > opinions as worthless because they are not from a "regular contributor.= " > > Do you? > > Great point, Tom! > > In fact, you=E2=80=99ve just explained the dynamics that create =E2=80=9C= centralizing > pressure=E2=80=9D in regards to development: If the weight of a person= =E2=80=99s opinion > is proportional to how many commits that person has made, and if the > probability of getting a commit pulled is proportional to the weight of > that person=E2=80=99s opinion, well=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m pretty sure this = results in a differential > equation that has a solution that results in ever-increasing centralized > control of the code base. > Really great stuff, Mr. R! We can use differential equations to measure centralization pressure (I'm pretty sure, good idea). If we want decentralization (or even mere stability), we must impose a counterbalancing rule such that each past commit makes one *less* likely to get their next commit pulled. For example, a "one man one commit" policy. > > I believe we should work to deprecate the idea that Core is somehow the > =E2=80=9Ccore of Bitcoin," in favour of multiple competing implementation= s. XT and > btcd are two working examples of this idea. Let=E2=80=99s make it easier= for the > community to determine the evolution of Bitcoin by making it easier for t= he > community to express their vote based on the code we choose to run. > Yes, this is essential. Greg, stop making it so hard for me to determine the evolution of Bitcoin by making it hard to express my vote based on the code I choose to run. Blockstream is always doing that I am sick of it. Mr. R really understands these concepts at a deep level and people need to pay more attention to what he has to say. Nash equilibriums are very important mathematical concept, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nhq5a/deprecating_bitcoin_core_v= isualizing_the/ > > Best regards, > Peter > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --001a113ed2a43841090521689c6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Peter R via = bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org= > wrote:

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfound= ation.org> wrote:
>
> On 10/5/2015 1:56 PM, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> In this case, I don't even believe we have any regulator contr= ibutors
>> that disagree.
>
> Since Gavin Andresen chose you to be one of 4 people who decides whose=
> contributions are accepted to the Core project, shouldn't you recu= se
> yourself from referencing "regular contributor" as some kind= of bar to
> an opinion being worthy?
>
> You don't want to be accused of squelching a person's opinions= by
> nacking or sitting on commits, then turning around and branding those<= br> > opinions as worthless because they are not from a "regular contri= butor."
> Do you?

Great point, Tom!

In fact, you=E2=80=99ve just explained the dynamics that create =E2=80=9Cce= ntralizing pressure=E2=80=9D in regards to development:=C2=A0 If the weight= of a person=E2=80=99s opinion is proportional to how many commits that per= son has made, and if the probability of getting a commit pulled is proporti= onal to the weight of that person=E2=80=99s opinion, well=E2=80=A6I=E2=80= =99m pretty sure this results in a differential equation that has a solutio= n that results in ever-increasing centralized control of the code base.
=
=C2=A0
Really great stuff, Mr. R! We can use di= fferential equations to measure centralization pressure (I'm pretty sur= e, good idea). If we want decentralization (or even mere stability), we mus= t impose a counterbalancing rule such that each past commit makes one *less= * likely to get their next commit pulled. For example, a "one man one = commit" policy.
=C2=A0

I believe we should work to deprecate the idea that Core is somehow the =E2= =80=9Ccore of Bitcoin," in favour of multiple competing implementation= s. XT and btcd are two working examples of this idea.=C2=A0 Let=E2=80=99s m= ake it easier for the community to determine the evolution of Bitcoin by ma= king it easier for the community to express their vote based on the code we= choose to run.

Yes, this is essential. Greg, stop= making it so hard for me to =C2=A0determine the evolution of Bitcoin by ma= king it hard to express my vote based on the code I choose to run. Blockstr= eam is always doing that I am sick of it.

Mr. R really understands t= hese concepts at a deep level and people need to pay more attention to what= he has to say. Nash equilibriums are very important mathematical concept, = for example: =C2=A0https://www.reddit.com/r/Bit= coin/comments/3nhq5a/deprecating_bitcoin_core_visualizing_the/
=C2=A0

Best regards,
Peter
_________________________________________= ______
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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