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From: Jeremy Rubin <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:20:17 -0700
Message-ID: <CAD5xwhgc4+u78d8g10zMtYnwtYkMihhFD-3CD+P1OYGiGtfwMg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@protonmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9495105dd903b91"
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What to expect in the next few weeks
Precedence: list

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I'm a bit confused here. The "personal blog" in question was sent to this
list with an archive link and you saw an replied to it.

The proposal to make an alternative path hadn't gotten buy in sufficient
from those iterating, and given the propensity of people to blow things out
of proportion in this list, I wanted to be sure a follow up plan carried
some buy before wider dissemination.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 6:53 AM Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@protonmail.co=
m>
wrote:

> Jeremy
>
> > The reason there was not a mailing list post is because that's not a
> committed plan, it was offered up for discussion to a public working grou=
p
> for feedback as a potential plan.
>
> In the interests of posterity from your personal blog on April 17th [1]:
>
> "Within a week from today, you=E2=80=99ll find software builds for a CTV =
Bitcoin
> Client for all platforms linked here:
>
>    - Mac OSX TODO:
>    - Windows TODO:
>    - Linux TODO:
>
> These will be built using GUIX, which are reproducible for verification."
>
> Doesn't sound to me that this was being "offered up for discussion". A
> week from April 17th would have been Sunday April 24th (2 days ago).
> Readers of this mailing list would have had no idea of these plans.
>
> =E2=80=8B> You've inaccurately informed the list on something no one has
> communicated committed intent for.
>
> I'll let readers assess from the above who is accurately informing the
> mailing list and who is using personal blog posts and messaging apps to
> give a completely different impression to one set of people versus reader=
s
> of this mailing list.
>
> I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume incompetence
> rather than malice but when it comes to potential chain splits it doesn't
> really matter which it is. It has the same effect and poses the same
> network risk. If and when you try something like this again I hope this i=
s
> remembered.
>
> The Binance hack rollback suggestion, the NACKing then coin flip
> suggestion on Taproot activation and now this. It seems like this trillio=
n
> dollar industry is a joke to you. I know we aren't supposed to get person=
al
> on this mailing list but honestly if you are going to continue with these
> stunts I'd rather you do them on a different blockchain.
>
> [1]: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
> Keybase: michaelfolkson
> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Tuesday, April 26th, 2022 at 6:48 AM, Jeremy Rubin <
> jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The reason there was not a mailing list post is because that's not a
> committed plan, it was offered up for discussion to a public working grou=
p
> for feedback as a potential plan. You've inaccurately informed the list o=
n
> something no one has communicated committed intent for. This was an
> alternative discussed in the telegram messaging app but did not seem to
> strike the correct balance so was not furthered.
>
> I was hoping to be able to share something back to this list sooner rathe=
r
> than later, but I have not been able to get, among those interested to
> discuss in that venue, coherence on a best next step. I communicated
> inasmuch on the bird app
> https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin/status/1518347793903017984
> https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin/status/1518477022439247872, but do not
> have a clear next step and am pouring over all the fantastic feedback I
> received so far.
>
> Further, you're representing the state of affairs as if there's a great
> need to scramble to generate software for this, whereas there already are
> scripts to support a URSF that work with the source code I pointed to fro=
m
> my blog. This approach is a decent one, even though it requires two thing=
s,
> because it is simple. I think it's important that people keep this in min=
d
> because that is not a joke, the intention was that the correct set of che=
ck
> and balance tools were made available. I'd be eager to learn what,
> specifically, you think the advantages are of a separate binary release
> rather than a binary + script that can handle both cases? I'm asking
> sincerely because I would make the modifications to the release I prepare=
d
> to support that as well, if they do not entail substantial technical risk=
.
> Personally, were I aligned with your preferences, I'd be testing the fork=
d
> script and making sure it is easy to use as the simplest and most effecti=
ve
> way to achieve your ends.
>
> regards,
>
> Jeremy
>
> --
> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 3:44 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> The latest I'm hearing (this mailing list appears to be being bypassed i=
n
>> favor of personal blogs and messaging apps) is that Speedy Trial miner
>> signaling for the contentious CTV soft fork is no longer going to start =
on
>> May 5th (as previously communicated [1]) and may instead now start aroun=
d
>> August 1st 2022.
>>
>> Hence for now the drama seems to have been averted. I am deeply skeptica=
l
>> that in the next 3 months this soft fork activation attempt will obtain
>> community consensus and will no longer be contentious (although I guess
>> theoretically it is possible). As a result I suspect we'll be in the exa=
ct
>> same situation with a URSF effort required 2-3 months down the line.
>>
>> If we are I'll try to keep the mailing list informed. It is important
>> there is transparency and ample time to research and prepare before maki=
ng
>> decisions on what software to run. Obviously I have no control over what
>> others choose to do. Please don't be rushed into running things you don'=
t
>> understand the implications of and please only signal for a soft fork if
>> you are convinced it has community consensus (what should precede signal=
ing
>> as it did for Taproot) and you are ready to activate a soft fork.
>>
>> [1]: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/
>>
>> --
>> Michael Folkson
>> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
>> Keybase: michaelfolkson
>> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 at 11:03 AM, Michael Folkson via
>> bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> As I said in my post:
>>
>> "If you care about Bitcoin's consensus rules I'd request you pay
>> attention so you can make an informed view on what to run and what to
>> support."
>>
>> Ideally everyone would come to an informed view independently.
>> Unfortunately many people don't have the time to follow Bitcoin drama 24=
/7
>> and hence struggle to separate noise from signal. In this case simple
>> heuristics are better than nothing. One heuristic is to listen to those =
in
>> the past who showed good judgment and didn't seek to misinform. Of cours=
e
>> it is an imperfect heuristic. Ideally the community would be given
>> sufficient time to come to an informed view independently on what softwa=
re
>> to run and not be rushed into making decisions. But it appears they are =
not
>> being afforded that luxury.
>>
>> > I fear you risk losing respect in the community
>>
>> I appreciate your concern.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Folkson
>> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
>> Keybase: michaelfolkson
>> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 at 6:10 AM, Billy Tetrud <
>> billy.tetrud@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > assuming people pay attention and listen to the individuals who were
>> trusted during that period
>>
>> Bitcoin is not run by a group of authorities of olde. By asking people t=
o
>> trust "those.. around in 2015-2017" you're asking people to blindly trus=
t
>> authorities. This, in my strong opinion, goes against the bitcoin ethos,
>> and is an incredibly harmful way to push for your agenda. I'd very much
>> recommend you reassess the way you're going about what you're trying to =
do.
>> I fear you risk losing respect in the community by implying without any
>> evidence that certain people are "taking advantage" of some situation an=
d
>> attempting "to confuse".
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If the next few weeks go how I fear they will it could get messy. If yo=
u
>>> care about Bitcoin's consensus rules I'd request you pay attention so y=
ou
>>> can make an informed view on what to run and what to support. For those=
 of
>>> you who were around in 2015-2017 you'll know what to expect. The right
>>> outcome endured in 2017 and I'm sure the right outcome will endure here
>>> assuming people pay attention and listen to the individuals who were
>>> trusted during that period. There are always a large number of motivate=
d
>>> parties who are incentivized to break nodes off from Bitcoin and may se=
ek
>>> to take advantage of a contentious soft fork activation attempt.
>>>
>>> Remember that if all the information is presented to users in a clear
>>> way well ahead of time then they can make their own mind up. I fear tha=
t
>>> things will be made as convoluted as possible in a way intended to conf=
use
>>> and information will be withheld until the last minute. When in doubt i=
t is
>>> generally better to rely on the status quo and tried and trusted. In th=
is
>>> case that would be Bitcoin Core. Alternative releases such as those see=
king
>>> to attempt to activate CTV or indeed those seeking to resist the activa=
tion
>>> of CTV really should only be considered if you are informed on exactly =
what
>>> you are running.
>>>
>>> If you are interested in the effort to resist the contentious soft fork
>>> activation attempt of CTV please join ##ursf on Libera IRC.
>>>
>>> Have a good weekend. Hopefully those behind this contentious soft fork
>>> activation attempt will see sense and we can go back to more productive
>>> things than resisting contentious soft forks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Folkson
>>> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
>>> Keybase: michaelfolkson
>>> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>I&#39;m a bit confused here. The &quot;personal blog=
&quot; in question was sent to this list with an archive link and you saw a=
n replied to it.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The pro=
posal to make an alternative path hadn&#39;t gotten buy in sufficient from =
those iterating, and given the propensity of people to blow things out of p=
roportion in this list, I wanted to be sure a follow up plan carried some b=
uy before wider dissemination.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"aut=
o"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 6:53 AM Mich=
ael Folkson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelfolkson@protonmail.com">michaelfol=
kson@protonmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">J=
eremy</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px;colo=
r:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;fon=
t-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">&gt;=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"display:in=
line!important;font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">The re=
ason there was not a mailing list post is because that&#39;s not a committe=
d plan, it was offered up for discussion to a public working group for feed=
back as a potential plan.</span></div><div><span style=3D"display:inline!im=
portant"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"display:inline!important;font=
-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">In the interests of poste=
rity from your personal blog on April 17th [1]:</span></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"display:inline!important"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"display=
:inline!important;font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">&qu=
ot;</span><span style=3D"display:inline!important;font-family:arial;font-si=
ze:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Within a week from today, you=E2=80=99ll find =
software builds for a CTV Bitcoin Client for all platforms linked here:</sp=
an><span style=3D"display:inline!important"><ul style=3D"box-sizing:border-=
box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem"><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;f=
ont-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Mac OSX TODO:</span></li><li=
 style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(=
34,34,34)"><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,=
34)">Windows TODO:</span></li><li style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-famil=
y:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"font-family:aria=
l;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Linux TODO:</span></li></ul><p style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem"><span style=3D=
"font-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">These will be built =
using GUIX, which are reproducible for verification.</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">&quot;</span></p><p st=
yle=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem">Doesn&#39;t=
 sound to me that this was being &quot;offered up for discussion&quot;.=C2=
=A0<span style=3D"font-size:0.875rem">A week from April 17th would have bee=
n Sunday April 24th (2 days ago). Readers of this mailing list would have h=
ad no idea of these plans.</span></p><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem"><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:1=
4px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">=E2=80=8B&gt;=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline!impo=
rtant">You&#39;ve inaccurately informed the list on something no one has co=
mmunicated committed intent for.</span></span></p><p style=3D"box-sizing:bo=
rder-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem"><span style=3D"font-size:0.875r=
em">I&#39;ll let readers assess from the above who is accurately informing =
the mailing list and who is using personal blog posts and messaging apps to=
 give a completely different impression to one set of people versus readers=
 of this mailing list.</span></p><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-t=
op:0px;margin-bottom:1rem">I like to give people the benefit of the doubt a=
nd assume incompetence rather than malice but when it comes to potential ch=
ain splits it doesn&#39;t really matter which it is. It has the same effect=
 and poses the same network risk. If and when you try something like this a=
gain I hope this is remembered.</p><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem">The Binance hack rollback suggestion, the NACK=
ing then coin flip suggestion on Taproot activation and now this. It seems =
like this trillion dollar industry is a joke to you. I know we aren&#39;t s=
upposed to get personal on this mailing list but honestly if you are going =
to continue with these stunts I&#39;d rather you do them on a different blo=
ckchain.</p></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display=
:inline!important"><br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-si=
ze:14px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all;display:inline!important">[1]:=C2=A0<span><a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow=
 noopener noreferrer" href=3D"https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-step=
s-bip119/" target=3D"_blank">https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps=
-bip119/</a></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:1=
4px"><br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&#39;SFMono-Regular&#39;,Consolas,&#39;Liberation Mono&#39;,Menlo,=
monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folkson<b=
r>Email: michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a href=3D"http://protonmai=
l.com/" style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-family:&=
#39;SFMono-Regular&#39;,Consolas,&#39;Liberation Mono&#39;,Menlo,monospace,=
monospace;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:n=
ormal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing=
:0px" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.c=
om</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;=
letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-w=
rap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:i=
nline"><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;SFMono-Regular&#39;,Consolas,&#39;Li=
beration Mono&#39;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px=
"> </span></span></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size=
:14px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-=
wrap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:=
inline"><span style=3D"font-family:&#39;SFMono-Regular&#39;,Consolas,&#39;L=
iberation Mono&#39;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14p=
x">Keybase: michaelfolkson<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 =
214C FEE3</span></span></span><br></div>
    </div>

            <div>

            </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div>
        ------- Original Message -------<br>
        On Tuesday, April 26th, 2022 at 6:48 AM, Jeremy Rubin &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">j=
eremy.l.rubin@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default">The reason=
 there was not a mailing list post is because that&#39;s not a committed pl=
an, it was offered up for discussion to a public working group for feedback=
 as a potential plan. You&#39;ve inaccurately informed the list on somethin=
g no one has communicated committed intent for. This was an alternative dis=
cussed in the telegram messaging app but did not seem to strike the correct=
 balance so was not furthered.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default"><br=
></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default">I was hoping to be able to share=
 something back to this list sooner rather than later, but I have not been =
able to get, among those interested to discuss in that venue, coherence on =
a best next step. I communicated inasmuch on the bird app <a href=3D"https:=
//twitter.com/JeremyRubin/status/1518347793903017984" rel=3D"noreferrer nof=
ollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://twitter.com/JeremyRubi=
n/status/1518347793903017984</a> <a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin=
/status/1518477022439247872" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin/status/1518477022439247=
872</a>, but do not have a clear next step and am pouring over all the fant=
astic feedback I received so far.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default">=
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default">Further, you&#39;re represent=
ing the state of affairs as if there&#39;s a great need to scramble to gene=
rate software for this, whereas there already are scripts to support a URSF=
 that work with the source code I pointed to from my blog. This approach is=
 a decent one, even though it requires two things, because it is simple. I =
think it&#39;s important that people keep this in mind because that is not =
a joke, the intention was that the correct set of check and balance tools w=
ere made available. I&#39;d be eager to learn what, specifically, you think=
 the advantages are of a separate binary release rather than a binary + scr=
ipt that can handle both cases? I&#39;m asking sincerely because I would ma=
ke the modifications to the release I prepared to support that as well, if =
they do not entail substantial technical risk. Personally, were I aligned w=
ith your preferences, I&#39;d be testing the forkd script and making sure i=
t is easy to use as the simplest and most effective way to achieve your end=
s.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"=
gmail_default">regards,</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)" class=3D"gmail_default">Jeremy</div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div=
 data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a h=
ref=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener=
 noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin</a><br></div></div></div></div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon=
, Apr 25, 2022 at 3:44 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noop=
ener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font=
-size:14px">The latest I&#39;m hearing (this mailing list appears to be bei=
ng bypassed in favor of personal blogs and messaging apps) is that Speedy T=
rial miner signaling for the contentious CTV soft fork is no longer going t=
o start on May 5th (as previously communicated [1]) and may instead now sta=
rt around August 1st 2022.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:1=
4px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Hence for no=
w the drama seems to have been averted. I am deeply skeptical that in the n=
ext 3 months this soft fork activation attempt will obtain community consen=
sus and will no longer be contentious (although I guess theoretically it is=
 possible). As a result I suspect we&#39;ll be in the exact same situation =
with a URSF effort required 2-3 months down the line. </div><div style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;=
font-size:14px">If we are I&#39;ll try to keep the mailing list informed. I=
t is important there is transparency and ample time to research and prepare=
 before making decisions on what software to run. Obviously I have no contr=
ol over what others choose to do. Please don&#39;t be rushed into running t=
hings you don&#39;t understand the implications of and please only signal f=
or a soft fork if you are convinced it has community consensus (what should=
 precede signaling as it did for Taproot) and you are ready to activate a s=
oft fork.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">[1]: <a href=3D"https://rubin=
.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-steps-bip119/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noope=
ner noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2022/04/17/next-=
steps-bip119/</a></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br>=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospac=
e,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folkson<br>Email:=
 michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a href=3D"http://protonmail.com/" =
style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-family:SFMono-Re=
gular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace;font-s=
ize:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-inden=
t:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.com</a><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-=
spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;wor=
d-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">=
<span style=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&qu=
ot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"> </span></spa=
n></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing=
:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spaci=
ng:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Men=
lo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Keybase: michaelfolk=
son<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3</span></span>=
</span><br></div>
    </div>

            <div>

            </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div>
        ------- Original Message -------<br>
        On Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 at 11:03 AM, Michael Folkson via bitc=
oin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D=
"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lis=
ts.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">As I said in my=
 post:</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">&quot;<span style=3D"display:inl=
ine">If you care about Bitcoin&#39;s consensus rules I&#39;d request you pa=
y attention so you can make an informed view on what to run and what to sup=
port.&quot;</span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><sp=
an style=3D"display:inline"><br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:aria=
l;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"display:inline">Ideally everyone would com=
e to an informed view independently. Unfortunately many people don&#39;t ha=
ve the time to follow Bitcoin drama 24/7 and hence struggle to separate noi=
se from signal. In this case simple heuristics are better than nothing. One=
 heuristic is to listen to those in the past who showed good judgment and d=
idn&#39;t seek to misinform. Of course it is an imperfect heuristic. Ideall=
y the community would be given sufficient time to come to an informed view =
independently on what software to run and not be rushed into making decisio=
ns. But it appears they are not being afforded that luxury.</span></div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"display:inline"=
><br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span sty=
le=3D"display:inline">&gt; <span style=3D"display:inline"><span> </span>I f=
ear you risk losing respect in the community</span></span></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"display:inline"><span =
style=3D"display:inline"><br></span></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:=
arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"display:inline"><span style=3D"display=
:inline">I appreciate your concern.</span></span></div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospac=
e,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folkson<br>Email:=
 michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noope=
ner noreferrer" style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-=
family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospace,=
monospace;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:n=
ormal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing=
:0px" href=3D"http://protonmail.com/" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.com</a><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-=
spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;wor=
d-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">=
<span style=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&qu=
ot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"> </span></spa=
n></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing=
:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spaci=
ng:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Men=
lo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Keybase: michaelfolk=
son<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3</span></span>=
</span><br></div>
    </div>

            <div>

            </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div>
        ------- Original Message -------<br>
        On Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 at 6:10 AM, Billy Tetrud &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:billy.tetrud@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">billy.tetrud@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;

<span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"> assuming people pay atten=
tion and listen to the individuals who were trusted during that period</spa=
n><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><d=
iv><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Bitcoin is not run by a=
 group of authorities of olde. By asking people to trust &quot;those.. arou=
nd in 2015-2017&quot; you&#39;re asking people to blindly trust authorities=
. This, in my strong opinion, goes against the bitcoin ethos, and is an inc=
redibly harmful way to push for your agenda. I&#39;d very much recommend yo=
u reassess the way you&#39;re going about what you&#39;re trying to do. I f=
ear you risk losing respect in the community by implying without any eviden=
ce that certain people are &quot;taking advantage&quot; of some situation a=
nd attempting &quot;to confuse&quot;. <br></span></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 22, 2022=
 at 12:33 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a rel=3D"noreferrer nofol=
low noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">I=
f the next few weeks go how I fear they will it could get messy. If you car=
e about Bitcoin&#39;s consensus rules I&#39;d request you pay attention so =
you can make an informed view on what to run and what to support. For those=
 of you who were around in 2015-2017 you&#39;ll know what to expect. The ri=
ght outcome endured in 2017 and I&#39;m sure the right outcome will endure =
here assuming people pay attention and listen to the individuals who were t=
rusted during that period. There are always a large number of motivated par=
ties who are incentivized to break nodes off from Bitcoin and may seek to t=
ake advantage of a contentious soft fork activation attempt.</div><div styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:=
arial;font-size:14px">Remember that if all the information is presented to =
users in a clear way well ahead of time then they can make their own mind u=
p. I fear that things will be made as convoluted as possible in a way inten=
ded to confuse and information will be withheld until the last minute. When=
 in doubt it is generally better to rely on the status quo and tried and tr=
usted. In this case that would be Bitcoin Core. Alternative releases such a=
s those seeking to attempt to activate CTV or indeed those seeking to resis=
t the activation of CTV really should only be considered if you are informe=
d on exactly what you are running.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;fon=
t-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">If y=
ou are interested in the effort to resist the contentious soft fork activat=
ion attempt of CTV please join ##ursf on Libera IRC.</div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;fo=
nt-size:14px">Have a good weekend. Hopefully those behind this contentious =
soft fork activation attempt will see sense and we can go back to more prod=
uctive things than resisting contentious soft forks.</div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospac=
e,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folkson<br>Email:=
 michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a href=3D"http://protonmail.com/" =
style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-family:SFMono-Re=
gular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace;font-s=
ize:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-inden=
t:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.com</a><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-=
spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;wor=
d-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">=
<span style=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&qu=
ot;,Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"> </span></spa=
n></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing=
:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spaci=
ng:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:SFMono-Regular,Consolas,&quot;Liberation Mono&quot;,Men=
lo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Keybase: michaelfolk=
son<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3</span></span>=
</span><br></div>
    </div>

            <div>

            </div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-d=
ev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoun=
dation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

        </blockquote><br>
    </div>
        </blockquote><br>
    </div>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer =
nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoun=
dation.org</a><br>
<a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" href=3D"https://lists.li=
nuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

        </blockquote><br>
    </div></blockquote></div></div></div>

--000000000000a9495105dd903b91--