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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:04:49 -0800
Message-ID: <CALqxMTFDVfOai0Y=O7UWrk5pk5pWSMz+FGedJngEZ-V=bDjGTg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>
To: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113560c6fb64f9050f1106f7
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	libbitcoin@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] On Rewriting Bitcoin (was Re:
 [Libbitcoin] Satoshi client: is a fork past 0.10 possible?)
Precedence: list

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Strongly with Peter on this.  That its highly complex to maintain strict
consensus between bitcoin versions, does not justify consensus rewrite
experiments; it tells you that the risk is exponentially worse and people
should use and rally around libconsensus.

I would advise any bitcoin ecosystem part, wallet, user to not use software
with consensus protocol rw-writes nor variants, you WILL lose money.

You could view bitcoin as a digital signature algorithm speculatively
tinkering with the algo is highly prone to binary failure mode and
unbounded funds loss.

Want to be clear this is not a political nor emotive issue. It is a
critical technical requirement for security if users of software people
write.

Please promote this meme.

Adam
On Feb 14, 2015 6:24 AM, "Tamas Blummer" <tamas@bitsofproof.com> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> You did not address me but libbitcoin. Since our story and your evaluatio=
n
> is probably similar, I chime in.
>
> On Feb 14, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>
> So stop wasting your time. Help get the consensus critical code out of
> Bitcoin Core and into a stand-alone libconsensus library,
>
>
> We have seen that the consensus critical code practically extends to
> Berkley DB limits or OpenSSL laxness, therefore
> it is inconceivable that a consensus library is not the same as Bitcoin
> Core, less its P2P service rules, wallet and RPC server.
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>
>
> Or you can be stereotypical programmers and dick around on github for
> the next ten years chasing stupid consensus bugs in code no-one uses.
>
>
>
> The Core code base is unfriendly to feature extensions because of its
> criticality, legacy design and ancient technology. It is also a commodity
> that the ecosystem takes for granted and free.
>
> I honestly admire the core team that works and progresses within these
> limits and perception.
>
> I am not willing to work within the core=E2=80=99s legacy technology limi=
ts. Does
> it mean I am dicking around? I think not.
> It was my way to go down the rabbit hole by re-digging it and I created
> successful commercial products on the way.
>
> It is entirely rational for me to focus on innovation that uses the core
> as a border router for this block chain.
>
> I am rather thankful for the ideas of the side chains, that enable
> innovation that is no longer measured on unapologetic compatibility with =
a
> given code base, but its services to end user.
>
> Tamas Blummer
> Bits of Proof
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take =
a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
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> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Strongly with Peter on this.=C2=A0 That its highly complex t=
o maintain strict consensus between bitcoin versions, does not justify cons=
ensus rewrite experiments; it tells you that the risk is exponentially wors=
e and people should use and rally around libconsensus.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I would advise any bitcoin ecosystem part, wallet, user to n=
ot use software with consensus protocol rw-writes nor variants, you WILL lo=
se money.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">You could view bitcoin as a digital signature algorithm spec=
ulatively tinkering with the algo is highly prone to binary failure mode an=
d unbounded funds loss.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Want to be clear this is not a political nor emotive issue. =
It is a critical technical requirement for security if users of software pe=
ople write.=C2=A0 </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Please promote this meme.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Adam</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Feb 14, 2015 6:24 AM, &quot;Tamas Blummer&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tamas@bitsofproof.com">tamas@bitsofproof.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div sty=
le=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>Peter,</div><div><br></div><div>You d=
id not address me but libbitcoin. Since our story and your evaluation is pr=
obably similar, I chime in.</div><div><br></div><div>On Feb 14, 2015, at 2:=
13 PM, Peter Todd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pete@petertodd.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">pete@petertodd.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">So =
stop wasting your time. Help get the consensus critical code out of<br>Bitc=
oin Core and into a stand-alone libconsensus library,</blockquote></div><di=
v><br></div><div>We have seen that the consensus critical code practically =
extends to Berkley DB limits or OpenSSL laxness, therefore</div><div>it is =
inconceivable that a consensus library is not the same as Bitcoin Core, les=
s its P2P service rules, wallet and RPC server.</div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div><div><div>On Feb 14, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Peter Todd &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:pete@petertodd.org" target=3D"_blank">pete@petertodd.org</a>&gt; wrote=
:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>Or you can be stereotypical programmer=
s and dick around on github for<br>the next ten years chasing stupid consen=
sus bugs in code no-one uses.<br></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div>The Core code base is unfriendly to feature extensions because =
of its criticality, legacy design and ancient technology. It is also a comm=
odity</div><div>that the ecosystem takes for granted and free.=C2=A0</div><=
div><br></div><div>I honestly admire the core team that works and progresse=
s within these limits and perception.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not wil=
ling to work within the core=E2=80=99s legacy technology limits. Does it me=
an I am dicking around? I think not.</div><div>It was my way to go down the=
 rabbit hole by re-digging it and I created successful commercial products =
on the way.</div><div><br></div><div>It is entirely rational for me to focu=
s on innovation that uses the core as a border router for this block chain.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I am rather thankful for the ideas of the s=
ide chains, that enable innovation that is no longer measured on unapologet=
ic compatibility with a given code base, but its services to end user.</div=
><div><br></div><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-st=
yle:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;lin=
e-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-=
space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Tamas Blummer</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0=
,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:n=
ormal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-alig=
n:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing=
:0px">Bits of Proof</div></div><div><div><br></div></div></div><br>--------=
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,<br>
sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is you=
r<br>
hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought<br>
leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a<=
br>
look and join the conversation now. <a href=3D"http://goparallel.sourceforg=
e.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/</a><br>_______=
________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>

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