Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Wgou6-0003eu-4l for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 04 May 2014 05:23:58 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of zikula.org designates 209.85.212.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.177; envelope-from=drak@zikula.org; helo=mail-wi0-f177.google.com; Received: from mail-wi0-f177.google.com ([209.85.212.177]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Wgou4-0003bi-G0 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 04 May 2014 05:23:58 +0000 Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id f8so292984wiw.4 for ; Sat, 03 May 2014 22:23:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jTwhVUhUTTB0GK0MZyRI48Nta9yJLdX7fEe/+ip+Bzg=; b=IsKGVm8D+CLklab/ZL+qZ3IWtO4B0dKgazXV2nxFdIZQtrsqhyLn0i7Gle4uk2rxw9 EiEclRG/3dhMllxcnqNOT04GTW7Yva8RzdJzuonBjP33Mb0sV4JTDBbJUiasvMqppkHl Ta0gpGxwntKLOyrDFo5AnZ7C4mzdqpJ+Vq1L0KZS3STClBpUHfONjbgsrEBCTDvMbPgL wQl29Zie6OYdti8e4JPxIw38NRPwokBHIgFZJfuWBPTGFBnn697924nCPJrAcrxIpgND no/66eRhxKp15tP1yK03jjBPhJ+PworRJv4wrvBl6wi+Qpiq7Ma9r0GKJxHvxHxIvGVO jekg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn0qfvphkpmfmPZov4viutNXdGpS93VdwQC2jQG3AXBKfYLvjHgzNUEcSMEsSauZKEwCBrh MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.14.229 with SMTP id s5mr10282070wic.10.1399180712122; Sat, 03 May 2014 22:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.24.137 with HTTP; Sat, 3 May 2014 22:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.24.137 with HTTP; Sat, 3 May 2014 22:18:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53659234.3020207@gmail.com> References: <53644F13.1080203@gmail.com> <53659234.3020207@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 06:18:32 +0100 Message-ID: From: Drak To: Chris Pacia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040fa00652c07d04f88c2566 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1Wgou4-0003bi-G0 Cc: Bitcoin Development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 05:23:58 -0000 --f46d040fa00652c07d04f88c2566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +1 On 4 May 2014 02:06, "Chris Pacia" wrote: > Absent a concerted effort to move to something else other than 'bits', I > would be willing to bet the nomenclature moves in that direction anyway. > 'Bits' is just a shorten word for 'millibits' (or microbits, if you > will). It's easier to say and my guess is people would tend to use it > naturally own their own. Kind of like 'bucks' for dollars. > > The other synergies are: > -bit is part of the word Bitcoin. The currency unit bit is part of a > whole bitcoin. > -bit symbolically represents the tech nature of the bitcoin. > -bit used to be a unit of money way back when. This largely reclaims it. > -when used as money bit when in references to a precession metal coin. > The name 'bitcoin' references that as well as the mimicking of the gold > standard in the protocol rules. > > All around I don't think there is a better fit. I doubt people will get > confused by it. The context it's used in will distinguish it from other > uses of the word. > > On 05/03/2014 12:27 PM, Mike Caldwell wrote: > > I agree with the sentiment that most people don't understand either > computer science or Bitcoin. The goal of getting people to understand > enough about Bitcoin to use it is achievable and a goal that is "in scope" > of our efforts. Getting them to understand computer science at large at the > same time, less so. > > > > The fact that people routinely confuse RAM and hard drive sizes has much > to do with the fact that the average lay person has little need to > prioritize this as something to keep in the forefront. They don't get > "horribly" confused, they just simply don't get worked up over what looks > to them like a rounding error, much to the dismay of anyone who believes > that everyone should be an expert at computer science. The average joe may > assess (accurately from his perspective) that the distinction isn't > important enough to merit significant mental resources and he is justified > in not expending them that way even if someone else thinks he should. > > > > Poor understanding is precisely what a proper effort to name this would > be to avoid. It is not frill or aesthetics, it is a planned targeting of > language to achieve the clearest communication to the widest possible > target audience using the language most likely to be understood by them in > light of our objectives. It's marketing. > > > > Mike > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 3, 2014, at 9:49 AM, "Christophe Biocca" < > christophe.biocca@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors > >> understand the topics they're talking about. > >> Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get horribly > >> confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the same > >> units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be > >> the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding). > >> > >> Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't > >> deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an issue > >> are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We > >> understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero > >> understanding of either. > >> > >> Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things: > >> > >> - Mining (for transaction validation). > >> - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even really > >> exist at the network level). > >> - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all > >> backups can be stolen from equally). > >> > >> I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I explain > >> Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here, > >> because there were arguably no better words to assign to these > >> concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and is > >> the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to the > >> pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the > >> protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but I've > >> definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blockchain" > >> and "blockchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't > >> come up in beginner explanations). > >> > >> It seems downright masochistic to add > >> yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to the pile > >> for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to confuse > >> people? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform > available. > > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available. > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --f46d040fa00652c07d04f88c2566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1

On 4 May 2014 02:06, "Chris Pacia" <= ;ctpacia@gmail.com> wrote:
Absent a concerted effort to move to something else other than 'bits= 9;, I
would be willing to bet the nomenclature moves in that direction anyway. 'Bits' is just a shorten word for 'millibits' (or microbits= , if you
will). It's easier to say and my guess is people would tend to use it naturally own their own. Kind of like 'bucks' for dollars.

The other synergies are:
-bit is part of the word Bitcoin. The currency unit bit is part of a
whole bitcoin.
-bit symbolically represents the tech nature of the bitcoin.
-bit used to be a unit of money way back when. This largely reclaims it. -when used as money bit when in references to a precession metal coin.
The name 'bitcoin' references that as well as the mimicking of the = gold
standard in the protocol rules.

All around I don't think there is a better fit. I doubt people will get=
confused by it. The context it's used in will distinguish it from other=
uses of the word.

On 05/03/2014 12:27 PM, Mike Caldwell wrote:
> I agree with the sentiment that most people don't understand eithe= r computer science or Bitcoin. =C2=A0The goal of getting people to understa= nd enough about Bitcoin to use it is achievable and a goal that is "in= scope" of our efforts. Getting them to understand computer science at= large at the same time, less so.
>
> The fact that people routinely confuse RAM and hard drive sizes has mu= ch to do with the fact that the average lay person has little need to prior= itize this as something to keep in the forefront. =C2=A0They don't get = "horribly" confused, they just simply don't get worked up ove= r what looks to them like a rounding error, much to the dismay of anyone wh= o believes that everyone should be an expert at computer science. =C2=A0The= average joe may assess (accurately from his perspective) that the distinct= ion isn't important enough to merit significant mental resources and he= is justified in not expending them that way even if someone else thinks he= should.
>
> Poor understanding is precisely what a proper effort to name this woul= d be to avoid. =C2=A0It is not frill or aesthetics, it is a planned targeti= ng of language to achieve the clearest communication to the widest possible= target audience using the language most likely to be understood by them in= light of our objectives. =C2=A0It's marketing.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 3, 2014, at 9:49 AM, "Christophe Biocca" <christophe.biocca@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
>>
>> Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors
>> understand the topics they're talking about.
>> Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people"= ; get horribly
>> confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the = same
>> units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to b= e
>> the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding).
>>
>> Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn&#= 39;t
>> deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see = an issue
>> are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We<= br> >> understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero
>> understanding of either.
>>
>> Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things= :
>>
>> - Mining (for transaction validation).
>> - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't eve= n really
>> exist at the network level).
>> - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and = all
>> backups can be stolen from equally).
>>
>> I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I expl= ain
>> Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff h= ere,
>> because there were arguably no better words to assign to these
>> concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor= , and is
>> the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to = the
>> pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the=
>> protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but = I've
>> definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blo= ckchain"
>> and "blo= ckchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't=
>> come up in beginner explanations).
>>
>> It seems downright masochistic to add
>> yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to = the pile
>> for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to con= fuse
>> people?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For= FREE
> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. =C2= =A0Get
> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform avail= able.
> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
> http://p.s= f.net/sfu/SauceLabs
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-d= evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco= in-development
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE=
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. =C2=A0Get<= br> unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available.=
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."
http://p.sf.net= /sfu/SauceLabs
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment
--f46d040fa00652c07d04f88c2566--