Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC40C0032 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB56441686 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:56 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org BB56441686 Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=proton.me header.i=@proton.me header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=br55wnovxrdwxddrz7cr3iaw5a.protonmail header.b=ijt8Dsab X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eqTPoxcs-k1Q for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-41103.protonmail.ch (mail-41103.protonmail.ch [185.70.41.103]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF044409A2 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org CF044409A2 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=br55wnovxrdwxddrz7cr3iaw5a.protonmail; t=1696900361; x=1697159561; bh=npAo2QB3oAjUtcYcTgX1olGH7/dIc9fSWCS3BClMmTA=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=ijt8DsabWUhG9H+oJlSU5Oh4rShTAfXLigej6eocdDwdhBN4RghLaj6+EQecJvY+5 Q66X8LKEmpSuSyNvXBo2lvLbX7P7gB+pmuDjPMZ+TlNePq+HhkGfrwSFeSvse5FeTO Z70oy91kRqxb+mCu9OzYkQN0wexXJQKYXRTDfGURWfBrcrCVoWvqcUFOH7kdN05nCf ZE0JQhxvByF+PTODhJC2Mnm3Dy4y1LXUqDqFXANmHm0/1FOagPezO7MRt9NXBlp0K+ Wgr/vaY7L10U1Q0IK5nsMGB5ET27F1yKddoXy/VCbMTlmsgq6XDUbUnBRHjuOkxGFt fi/qmfISk0QUA== Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:28 +0000 To: Robin Linus From: symphonicbtc Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 77757318:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:53:02 +0000 Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BitVM: Compute Anything on Bitcoin X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 01:12:58 -0000 Hello Robin, I'm very interested in this development, as I've been longing for arbitrary= smart contracts on bitcoin for a while. I've got a couple questions I'd li= ke to ask, on behalf of myself and some others I've been discussing this wi= th. 1. Do you have plans to implement a high-level language that can compile do= wn to this or maybe adapt some existing VM to make these scripts? I'm sure = many would love to get their hands on something a bit more workable to test= this out. 2. What are the expected computational costs of establishing the tapleaves = for these scripts? Is it feasible to do complex things like ECDSA signature= checking, etc? I worry that the hardware required to use this tech will be= a barrier in it's widespread use. 3. Would it be possible to implement existing zero-knowledge proof construc= ts on BitVM, and would that make verification simpler? I.e. instead of veri= fying your program directly with BitVM, have your program be written in som= e ZKP VM, and just have the proof verification execute on BitVM 4. What are the expected costs of resolving a fraud for a program? I assume= this is quite nuanced and has to do with the exact circumstances of the pr= ogram, but would it be possible for you to provide some examples of how thi= s might go down for some simple programs to aid comprehension? Thanks, Symphonic Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, October 9th, 2023 at 1:46 PM, Robin Linus via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Abstract. BitVM is a computing paradigm to express Turing-complete Bitcoi= n contracts. This requires no changes to the network=E2=80=99s consensus ru= les. Rather than executing computations on Bitcoin, they are merely verifie= d, similarly to optimistic rollups. A prover makes a claim that a given fun= ction evaluates for some particular inputs to some specific output. If that= claim is false, then the verifier can perform a succinct fraud proof and p= unish the prover. Using this mechanism, any computable function can be veri= fied on Bitcoin. Committing to a large program in a Taproot address require= s significant amounts of off-chain computation and communication, however t= he resulting on-chain footprint is minimal. As long as both parties collabo= rate, they can perform arbitrarily complex, stateful off-chain computation,= without leaving any trace in the chain. On-chain execution is required onl= y in case of a dispute. >=20 > https://bitvm.org/bitvm.pdf > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev