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boundary="_000_SL2P216MB0089322359FD1FC4C89AB1619D9B9SL2P216MB0089KORP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PU1APC01FT051.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c5a8d4d1-26dd-4631-af76-08d8dbdd1bbe X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Feb 2021 11:36:37.1712 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PU1APC01HT202 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 12:35:57 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 11:36:55 -0000 --_000_SL2P216MB0089322359FD1FC4C89AB1619D9B9SL2P216MB0089KORP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Evening, Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin on = the basis you advise, "Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features= ", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of = Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identi= fiable, the PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation. Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result of a su= bset of transactions although the operation of the channel is observable to= the parties. The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot pub= lished in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformatio= n nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have. = It is important not to allow things to slip through the cracks. As you may = believe may astute reviewers could make a full disclosure to this list it i= s not to be expected. KING JAMES HRMH Great British Empire Regards, The Australian LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire MR. Damian A. James Williamson Wills et al. Willtech www.willtech.com.au www.go-overt.com and other projects earn.com/willtech linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson m. 0487135719 f. +61261470192 This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai= l if misdelivered. ________________________________ From: Jeremy Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin Protocol= Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy featu= res any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, taproot is= a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, d= one so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy dependent on user be= havior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). For example, it makes = it possible for lightning channels to look structurally similar to single k= ey wallets, but it does nothing inherently to obfuscate the transaction gra= ph as in monero. Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in Bitco= in via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc) with = or without Taproot, so the point is further moot. Do you have a source on your reporting? You may wish to rescind your nack. -- @JeremyRubin On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-= dev > wrote: Good Afternoon, It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features inc= luding the ability to hide transactions. If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain. A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction= is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that transaction= s may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited = impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason India has be= en reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already. I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming the est= ablished robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core functionality o= f Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered. KING JAMES HRMH Great British Empire Regards, The Australian LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire MR. Damian A. James Williamson Wills et al. Willtech www.willtech.com.au www.go-overt.com and other projects earn.com/willtech linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson m. 0487135719 f. +61261470192 This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai= l if misdelivered. _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev --_000_SL2P216MB0089322359FD1FC4C89AB1619D9B9SL2P216MB0089KORP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good Evening,

Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin=  on the basis you adv= ise, "Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing= feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transac= tion is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obf= uscation.

Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result of a su= bset of transactions although the operation of the channel is observable to= the parties.

The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot pub= lished in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformatio= n nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have. = It is important not to allow things to slip through the cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could = make a full disclosure to this list it is not to be expected.

KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.

 
Willtech
www.willtech.com.au
and other projects
 
earn.com/willtech
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email does not constitute a general advice. Pleas= e disregard this email if misdelivered.
From: Jeremy <jlrubin@= mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM
To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>; Bit= coin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
 
I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy featu= res any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, taproot is= a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, d= one so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way= you mention). For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to = look structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inhere= ntly to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero.

Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exis= t in Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, = etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.

Do you have a source on your reporting?

You may wish to rescind your nack.


On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LOR= D HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>= wrote:
Good Afternoon,

It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features inc= luding the ability to hide transactions.

If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain.

A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction= is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that transaction= s may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited = impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason India has been reported to have banned cryptocurren= cies already.

I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming the est= ablished robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core functionality o= f Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.
KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.

 
Willtech
and other projects
 


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email does not constitute a genera= l advice. Please disregard this email if misdelivered.
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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