Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB55C0032 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:00:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5408B60D65 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:00:07 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 5408B60D65 Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=lkcl.net header.i=@lkcl.net header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=201607131 header.b=PmNjGfzc X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7xMQXbWh0Cw for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:00:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from libre-soc.org (libre-soc.org [46.235.227.77]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2280560C25 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:00:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 2280560C25 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lkcl.net; s=201607131; h=Content-Type:Cc:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:From:References: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID :Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To: Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe :List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=h1S3O1/sy/kCWNqsqQ8qjYommAjn4oD/obF6nMFQPR0=; b=PmNjGfzcMl6ZbRnCh3ooKNBJbq jTTuLJ1Vc64k3yQjBVEo81Aty8NGvBJlZoHEa/ke3F6HiNmnNEWZnvFKsHWcGa1PtlZfkO2smpCTQ pS5c1OcBWLSHTSNBKsZ30xjljdmnkZ61AtIlsOE1Dw6q7XUoEpDBw5bHWLAPW9Mijg8o=; Received: from mail-vk1-f174.google.com ([209.85.221.174]) by libre-soc.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r0XrO-0003gu-28 for bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:00:02 +0000 Received: by mail-vk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4abe6a78ab2so2368600e0c.0 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 18:00:01 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzlaSAOyzhfHnjXCGBENbm2T39Sh90YLNt2On/vTjanNDRmf/fi pFken4uGCeWKynPDZgqJsfr8rXx3Lin3xtMFC9o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFhKY/lnOwYCNdKLx/oPKr3DDnK9kgXQ6+YvRGgV2ltjGuwrzjkrXDn6NDVNfr/YBOFfadM+OBDyaK5GUdB3UY= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:9bc6:0:b0:499:dec9:e1a8 with SMTP id d189-20020a1f9bc6000000b00499dec9e1a8mr563928vke.14.1699408800804; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 18:00:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a59:d28e:0:b0:421:1f08:d944 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 18:00:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4iOFtd5ttgeFZZ_kxQ3EJngEzXAFOXC2LAZfUaHe3vs5dVTTFkriWe-ksTEC4WPQO-Z7myE3bR7HGnPty5uE-QkKlzrnwE3FCM80IoL4HEs=@protonmail.com> References: <4iOFtd5ttgeFZZ_kxQ3EJngEzXAFOXC2LAZfUaHe3vs5dVTTFkriWe-ksTEC4WPQO-Z7myE3bR7HGnPty5uE-QkKlzrnwE3FCM80IoL4HEs=@protonmail.com> From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 02:00:00 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: James Blacklock Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e6780706099a71e1" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:04:56 +0000 Cc: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Alain Williams Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin-dev Digest, Vol 102, Issue 15 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:00:07 -0000 --000000000000e6780706099a71e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tuesday, November 7, 2023, James Blacklock wrote: > Agreed, email lists are the way. Personally I love reading the email list; it is a great resource to know what kinds of technical discussions are going on in the community. I certainly hope we can just migrate to a different email list. i have a friend alain williams who runs lists.phcomp.co.uk and is competent at it. was the UKUUG Chair err 25 years ago? cc'd. the other lowest-common-denominator method is of course nntp newsgroups (eternal-september.org run an excellent spam-free one) and i do not mean "newsgroups via groups.google.com", i mean *actual* nntp newsgroups, you know, the ones that have been running for 40 years and everyone has forgotten even exist? :) they were and always have been distributed and distributable (and spam-free *if* run properly) and i am sure the owner of eternal-september would be happy to host/distribute bitcoin-dev. another idea is public-inbox which actually stores an entire mail archive *in a git repository* https://github.com/nojb/public-inbox public-inbox implements the sharing of an email inbox via git to complement or replace traditional mailing lists. Readers may read via NNTP, IMAP, Atom feeds or HTML archives. public-inbox can be "initialised" from a mailman archive so you can have the entire past history of messages in the git repo as well. it's really quite sophisticated. if anyone doesn't like "email bcuz old", or wants to remain anonymous, they can always get a protonmail account, use mail-forwarders, and TOR. and if they are happy to use nntp they can register on eternal-september.org, which then allows them to send and receive... and then use TOR-proxy. all doable *without* having to install something that will consume alarmingly high resources and cost a fortune in hosting every month. l. > > > On Tuesday, November 7th, 2023 at 3:20 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023, < bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> >> > Rooms can be E2E encrypted. >> >> please, NO. >> >> there are people who have such valuable skills that their >> lives are put in danger if they engage in encrypted conversations. >> >> additionally the entire point of an open project IS THAT IT IS OPEN. >> >> mailing lists are the lowest OPEN common denominator. >> >> l. >> >> >> -- >> --- >> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 --000000000000e6780706099a71e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tuesday, November 7, 2023, James Blacklock <jamesblacklock@protonmail.com> wrote= :

> Agreed, email lists are the way. Personally I love reading th= e email list; it is a great resource to know what kinds of technical discus= sions are going on in the community. I certainly hope we can just migrate t= o a different email list.

i have a friend alain williams who runs lists.phcomp.co.uk
and is compet= ent at it. was the UKUUG Chair err 25 years ago?
cc'd.

the ot= her lowest-common-denominator method is of course nntp
newsgroups (eternal-september.org run an excell= ent spam-free
one) and i do not mean "newsgroups via groups.google.com",
i mean *actual* nntp= newsgroups, you know, the ones that have
been running for 40 years and = everyone has forgotten even
exist? :)

they were and always have b= een distributed and distributable
(and spam-free *if* run properly) and = i am sure the owner of
eternal-september would be happy to host/distribu= te bitcoin-dev.

another idea is public-inbox which actually storesan entire mail archive *in a git repository*
https://github.com/nojb/public-inbox

= =C2=A0 public-inbox implements the sharing of an email inbox
=C2=A0 via= git to complement or replace traditional mailing lists.
=C2=A0 Readers= may read via NNTP, IMAP, Atom feeds or HTML archives.

public-inbox = can be "initialised" from a mailman archive
so you can have th= e entire past history of messages in
the git repo as well. =C2=A0it'= s really quite sophisticated.

if anyone doesn't like "email= bcuz old", or wants to remain
anonymous, they can always get a pro= tonmail account, use
mail-forwarders, and TOR. and if they are happy to = use nntp they can register
on e= ternal-september.org, which then allows them to send and
receive... = and then use TOR-proxy.

all doable *without* having to install somet= hing that will
consume alarmingly high resources and cost a fortune in h= osting
every month.

l.

>
>
> On Tuesday, No= vember 7th, 2023 at 3:20 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton via bitcoin-dev &= lt;bitcoin-dev@lis= ts.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>
>>
>&g= t;
>> On Tuesday, November 7, 2023, <bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfound= ation.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Rooms can be E2E encr= ypted.
>>
>> please, NO.
>>
>> there ar= e people who have such valuable skills that their
>> lives are put= in danger if they engage in encrypted conversations.
>>
>&g= t; additionally the entire point of an open project IS THAT IT IS OPEN.
= >>
>> mailing lists are the lowest OPEN common denominator.<= br>>>
>> l.
>>
>>
>> --
>&g= t; ---
>> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
><= br>
--
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com= /eoma68

--000000000000e6780706099a71e1--