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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 09:22:58 -0700
Message-ID: <CAGLBAhc4Yxhrdd07nt6pY7fo7BmXXgcxANq++w=WfSoUA5NfBA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec53f397dac6e28051c2e3b29
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A compromise between BIP101 and Pieter's proposal
Precedence: list

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Here are some books that will help more people understand why Adam's
concern is important:
Kicking the Dragon (by Larken Rose)
The State (by Franz Oppenheimer)

Like he said, it isn't much about bitcoin.  Our crypto is just one of the
defenses we've created, and understanding what it defends will help us
maintain its value.

Dave

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Adam Back via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> I think trust the data-center logic obviously fails, and I was talking
> about this scenario in the post you are replying to.  You are trusting the
> data-center operator period.  If one could trust data-centers to run
> verified code, to not get hacked, filter traffic, respond to court orders
> without notifying you etc that would be great but that's unfortunately not
> what happens.
>
> Data-center operators are bound to follow laws, including NSLs and gag
> orders.  They also get hacked, employ humans who can be corrupt,
> blackmailed, and themselves centralisation points for policy attack.
> Snowden related disclosures and keeping aware of security show this is very
> real.
>
> This isn't much about bitcoin even, its just security reality for hosting
> anything intended to be secure via decentralisation, or just hosting in
> general while at risk of political or policy attack.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Here are some books that will help mor=
e people understand why Adam&#39;s concern is important:<br></div>Kicking t=
he Dragon (by Larken Rose)<br></div>The State (by Franz Oppenheimer)<br><br=
></div>Like he said, it isn&#39;t much about bitcoin.=C2=A0 Our crypto is j=
ust one of the defenses we&#39;ve created, and understanding what it defend=
s will help us maintain its value.<br><br></div>Dave<br><div><div><div><div=
><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><blockquote style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Adam Back via b=
itcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf=
oundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><p dir=3D"ltr">I
 think trust the data-center logic obviously fails, and I was talking=20
about this scenario in the post you are replying to.=C2=A0 You are trusting=
=20
the data-center operator period.=C2=A0 If one could trust data-centers to r=
un
 verified code, to not get hacked, filter traffic, respond to court=20
orders without notifying you etc that would be great but that&#39;s=20
unfortunately not what happens.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Data-center operators are bound to follow laws, including=20
NSLs and gag orders.=C2=A0 They also get hacked, employ humans who can be=
=20
corrupt, blackmailed, and themselves centralisation points for policy=20
attack.=C2=A0 Snowden related disclosures and keeping aware of security sho=
w=20
this is very real.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">This isn&#39;t much about bitcoin even, its just security=20
reality for hosting anything intended to be secure via decentralisation,
 or just hosting in general while at risk of political or policy attack.</p=
></blockquote><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv>

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