Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:41:17 -0500
From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
Message-ID: <20140325214117.GY3180@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20140322150836.GG3180@nl.grid.coop> <20140322190825.GB6047@savin>
	<532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io> <20140325122851.GA9818@savin>
	<CABsx9T149f9of9+sYMFazAxtRi=ZJrpA1B41buERD3+j7NGKmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140325134918.GB7929@savin>
	<CAJHLa0PR8v2FobPUsO73BKpvBZ3M2Zsx1F9SVGVb6TKv6zsjWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5331C49B.2000709@gmail.com>
	<CAJna-HhL7StCb9pwKC22V3GZeDUEOBGaY6tCvv-Jk=5WOuek4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<9e0d85b1-a9a3-4198-b048-63359e871eb1@email.android.com>
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Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"
	<bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary
Precedence: list

Peter,

I think you and I both know there is WAAYY to much MONEY to be taken
from naive end-users by the companies that employ people who call
your concerns FUD.

And for everyone else, I want to apologize in advance for anything
I might happen to say that might be abrasive, arrogant, angry, or 
'in need of moderation'. So for those who do not wish to hear or 
read such things, delete my message now.

===================
disclaimer: strong language follows
===================


What the fuck Groupthink?
committee for GROUPTHINKPROFIT?

I'd rather have Peter Todd calling some developers idiots on the 
list than some fucking idiots who get paid way to fucking much 
calling 'end-users' stupid for believing MtGox. Hell, I was one
of these idiots that fell for a marketing scam by a company that
had a good story.


But here is the damn point. The Excecutive who was whining about 
how his devs won't show up should probably consider hiring people
who make VOCAL points on the mailing list. Or maybe he should 
consider that his developers might know his business model is
shit and if they DID say something, it would be CLEAR to the 
world that only an idiot would use their companies services, and
kill the company.

Would you rather hear of vulnerabilities and scaling limits on 
bitcoin-development, or would you rather hear about them by a 
chorus of "They got hacked, their code must suck", but AFTER 
the fact.

It seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that sleazy people
take a shitload of money from nice people. Moderate Peter and
I into oblivion at your own risk. Wouldn't you rather have us
pointing out obvious flaws than ignoring shit?

... But just remember, your employers probably make more money
by ignoring shit....

On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 03:47:15PM -0400, Peter Todd wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> OK, deal. You guys stop calling my concerns FUD, accusing me of having ulterior motives, etc. and I'll pay the same respect to you.
> 
> 
> On 25 March 2014 14:13:36 GMT-04:00, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote:
> >I fully agree, please keep friendly environment on this list. Btw I
> >also
> >met people who were making fun about Peter's reactions on bitcoin-dev.
> >
> >slush
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I would echo the need for some kind of moderation.
> >>
> >> I believe Peter Todd is an extremely intelligent individual, who has
> >a
> >> lot to offer the Bitcoin community.  He has a firm grasp of a lot of
> >> really deep Bitcoin concepts and his *technical* insight is generally
> >> positive.  Technically.  But the way he communicates on this list is
> >> *extremely* corrosive and breeds hostility.  It makes it a scary
> >place
> >> to discuss things, with frequent, public ridicule of everything
> >posted.
> >>
> >> I agree that I would rather have a friendly environment to discuss
> >> technicals, even if it means losing additional technical insight.
> >> People who would explicitly insult other contributors intelligence
> >and
> >> character on a public list should be subject to some kind of negative
> >> reinforcement.   Maybe there's solutions other than outright banning.
> >>
> >> -Alan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 03/25/2014 01:37 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> >> > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
> >wrote:
> >> >> For someone with 'Chief Scientist' as their job title, I'm
> >surprised you
> >> >> think so little of hard evidence and so much of idol worshipping.
> >> > Peter, take this unprofessional, personal crap off-list.
> >> >
> >> > Mike's anecdote of hostility is not an isolated one.  Just today, a
> >> > bitcore developer commented on "Peter Todd's ..apocalyptic vision
> >> > and... negative view on bitcoin" which turned off some other
> >> > developers from participating more interactively.
> >> >
> >> > As I commented on IRC, open source projects are no strangers to
> >people
> >> > who simultaneously (a) make useful contributions and (b) turn
> >> > potential contributors away with an abrasive or hostile attitude
> >> > toward others.  It's an unsolved problem in OSS, that I saw for 15+
> >> > years in the Linux kernel community.
> >> >
> >> > For this list, as Mike suggested on IRC, introducing an openly
> >stated
> >> > moderation policy may be the one route.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
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> >their
> >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >>
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> >"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
> >their
> >applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> >this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> >http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> >
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> >
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'                  hozer@hozed.org
7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul        grid.coop

      Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
         nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash