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To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Floating fees and SPV clients
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On Dec 3, 2013, at 12:29 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

> It may be acceptable that receivers don't always receive exactly what =
they requested, at least for person-to-business transactions.  For =
person-to-person transactions of course any fee at all is confusing =
because you intuitively expect that if you send 1 mBTC, then 1 mBTC will =
arrive the other end. I wonder if we'll end up in a world where buying =
things from shops involves paying fees, and (more occasional?) =
person-to-person transactions tend to be free and people just understand =
that the money isn't going to be spendable for a while.


> person-to-business transactions.  For person-to-person transactions
Why should there be two classes of transactions? Where does paying a =
local business at a farmer=92s stand lie in that realm? Transactions =
should work the same regardless of who is on the receiving end.

> any fee at all is confusing because you intuitively expect that if you =
send 1 mBTC, then 1 mBTC will arrive the other end
The paradigm of sending money has an explicit cost is not new... I think =
people are used to Western Union/PayPal and associated fees, no?  It=92s =
okay to have a fee if it=92s reasonable, so let=92s inform the user what =
the estimated cost is to send a transaction in a reasonable amount of =
time.

>  wonder if we'll end up in a world where buying things from shops =
involves paying fees
I stayed in a hotel for the first night here here in Milan, and there =
was an (anticipated) surcharge for the use of credit over cash. Again, =
nothing new here.


Fees are only confusing because existing clients do a terrible job of =
presenting the information to the user. In Hive Wallet, I=92m of the =
opinion that we should inform the user in an intuitive way to let them =
make an informed decision.=

--Apple-Mail=_90B85D20-1FD8-4B03-A7A1-33B4072408B7
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div><div>On Dec 3, 2013, at 12:29 =
PM, Mike Hearn &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">It may be acceptable that receivers don't always receive =
exactly what they requested, at least for person-to-business =
transactions. &nbsp;For person-to-person transactions of course any fee =
at all is confusing because you intuitively expect that if you send 1 =
mBTC, then 1 mBTC will arrive the other end. I wonder if we'll end up in =
a world where buying things from shops involves paying fees, and (more =
occasional?) person-to-person transactions tend to be free and people =
just understand that the money isn't going to be spendable for a =
while.</span></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>&gt; =
person-to-business transactions. &nbsp;For person-to-person =
transactions</div><div>Why should there be two classes of transactions? =
Where does paying a local business at a farmer=92s stand lie in that =
realm? Transactions should work the same regardless of who is on the =
receiving end.</div><div><br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;any fee at all is =
confusing because you intuitively expect that if you send 1 mBTC, then 1 =
mBTC will arrive the other end</div><div>The paradigm of sending money =
has an explicit cost is not new... I think people are used to Western =
Union/PayPal and associated fees, no? &nbsp;It=92s okay to have a fee if =
it=92s reasonable, so let=92s inform the user what the estimated cost is =
to send a transaction in a reasonable amount of =
time.</div><div><br></div><div>&gt; &nbsp;wonder if we'll end up in a =
world where buying things from shops involves paying fees</div><div>I =
stayed in a hotel for the first night here here in Milan, and there was =
an (anticipated) surcharge for the use of credit over cash. Again, =
nothing new here.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Fees are only =
confusing because existing clients do a terrible job of presenting the =
information to the user. In Hive Wallet, I=92m of the opinion that we =
should inform the user in an intuitive way to let them make an informed =
decision.</div></body></html>=

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