Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5tgz-0002II-Ox for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:38:37 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.220.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.52; envelope-from=wtogami@gmail.com; helo=mail-pa0-f52.google.com; Received: from mail-pa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.220.52]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z5tgx-0003sz-TO for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:38:37 +0000 Received: by pacyx8 with SMTP id yx8so82925426pac.2 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.161.4 with SMTP id xo4mr30662086pbb.65.1434710310275; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.93.72 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 00:38:30 -1000 Message-ID: From: "Warren Togami Jr." To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc1b426650b40518dc869a X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (wtogami[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Z5tgx-0003sz-TO Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Mailman incompatibility with DKIM ... X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:38:37 -0000 --047d7bdc1b426650b40518dc869a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > The new list currently has footers removed during testing. I am not >> pleased with the need to remove the subject tag and footer to be more >> compatible with DKIM users. >> > > Lists can do what are effectively MITM attacks on people's messages in any > way they like, if they resign for the messages themselves. That seems fair > to me! :) > Mailman isn't resigning it. Should it be? Does other mailing list software? > > >> I'm guessing DKIM enforcement is not very common because of issues like >> this? >> > > DKIM is used by most mail on the internet. DMARC rules that publish in DNS > statements like "All mail from bitpay.com is signed correctly so trash > any that isn't" are used on some of the worlds most heavily phished domains > like google.com, PayPal, eBay, and indeed BitPay. > > These rules are understood and enforced by all major webmail providers > including Gmail. It's actually only rusty geek infrastructure that has > problems with this, I've never heard of DKIM/DMARC users having issues > outside of dealing with mailman. The vast majority of email users who never > post to technical mailing lists benefit from it significantly. > > Really everyone should use them. Adding cryptographic integrity to email > is hardly a crazy idea :) > I understand the reason to protect the "heavily phished" domains. I heard that LKML does not modify the subject or add a footer, perhaps because it would make it incompatible with DKIM of the several big corporate domains who participate. I suppose it is somewhat acceptable for us to remove subject tags and footers if we have no choice... Warren --047d7bdc1b426650b40518dc869a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wro= te:
The new list currently has footers removed during testing.=C2=A0 I = am not pleased with the need to remove the subject tag and footer to be mor= e compatible with DKIM users.

=
Lists can do what are effectively MITM attacks on people&= #39;s messages in any way they like, if they resign for the messages themse= lves. That seems fair to me! =C2=A0:)
<= div>
Mailman isn't resigning it.=C2=A0 Should it be?=C2= =A0 Does other mailing list software?=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0I'm guessing DKIM enforcement is not very common b= ecause of issues like this?

DKIM is used by most mail on the internet. DMARC rul= es that publish in DNS statements like "All mail from bitpay.com is signed correctly so trash= any that isn't" are used on some of the worlds most heavily phish= ed domains like google.com<= /a>, PayPal, eBay, and indeed BitPay.=C2=A0


<= div>Really everyone should use them. Adding cryptographic integrity to emai= l is hardly a crazy idea :)
= Warren
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