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	<20160303150418.GA2341@banane.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 16:36:48 +0100
Message-ID: <CABm2gDqbxAkZzfycEzX7370CAYMsyzL=L3tAKh6CNO4QOJyLsg@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
To: Henning Kopp <henning.kopp@uni-ulm.de>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] consensus rule change for TX fee safety
Precedence: list

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There's  an absurd fee (non-consensus) check already. Maybe that check can
be improved, but probably the wallet layer is more appropriate for this.
On Mar 3, 2016 16:23, "Henning Kopp via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> I think there is no need to do a hardfork for this. Rather it should
> be implemented as a safety-mechanism in the client. Perhaps a warning
> can pop up, if one of your conditions A) or B) is met.
>
> All the best
> Henning Kopp
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 05:02:11AM -0800, Alice Wonder via bitcoin-dev
> wrote:
> > I think the next hard fork should require a safety rule for TX fees.
> >
> >
> https://blockchain.info/tx/6fe69404e6c12b25b60fcd56cc6dc9fb169b24608943def6dbe1eb0a9388ed08
> >
> > 15 BTC TX fee for < 7 BTC of outputs.
> >
> > Probably either a typo or client bug.
> >
> > My guess is the user was using a client that does not adjust TX fee, and
> > needed to manually set it in order to get the TX in the block sooner, and
> > meant 15 mBTC or something.
> >
> > I suggest that either :
> >
> > A) TX fee may not be larger than sum of outputs
> > B) TX fee per byte may not be larger than 4X largest fee per byte in
> > previous block
> >
> > Either of those would have prevented this TX from going into a block.
> >
> > Many people I know are scared of bitcoin, that they will make a TX and
> make
> > a mistake they can't undo.
> >
> > Adding protections may help give confidence and there is precedence to
> doing
> > things to prevent typo blunders - a public address has a four byte
> checksum
> > to reduce the odds of a typo.
> >
> > This kind of mistake is rare, so a fix could be included in the coming HF
> > for the possible July 2017 block increase.
> >
> > Thank you for your time.
> >
> > Alice Wonder
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
>
> --
> Henning Kopp
> Institute of Distributed Systems
> Ulm University, Germany
>
> Office: O27 - 3402
> Phone: +49 731 50-24138
> Web: http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~kopp
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">There&#39;s=C2=A0 an absurd fee (non-consensus) check alread=
y. Maybe that check can be improved, but probably the wallet layer is more =
appropriate for this.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mar 3, 2016 16:23, &quot;Henning Kopp via bit=
coin-dev&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"=
>bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attributio=
n"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
I think there is no need to do a hardfork for this. Rather it should<br>
be implemented as a safety-mechanism in the client. Perhaps a warning<br>
can pop up, if one of your conditions A) or B) is met.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Henning Kopp<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 05:02:11AM -0800, Alice Wonder via bitcoin-dev wrot=
e:<br>
&gt; I think the next hard fork should require a safety rule for TX fees.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://blockchain.info/tx/6fe69404e6c12b25b60fcd56cc6dc9fb=
169b24608943def6dbe1eb0a9388ed08" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://blockchain.info/tx/6fe69404e6c12b25b60fcd56cc6dc9fb169b24608943def6dbe1=
eb0a9388ed08</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 15 BTC TX fee for &lt; 7 BTC of outputs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Probably either a typo or client bug.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My guess is the user was using a client that does not adjust TX fee, a=
nd<br>
&gt; needed to manually set it in order to get the TX in the block sooner, =
and<br>
&gt; meant 15 mBTC or something.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I suggest that either :<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A) TX fee may not be larger than sum of outputs<br>
&gt; B) TX fee per byte may not be larger than 4X largest fee per byte in<b=
r>
&gt; previous block<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Either of those would have prevented this TX from going into a block.<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Many people I know are scared of bitcoin, that they will make a TX and=
 make<br>
&gt; a mistake they can&#39;t undo.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Adding protections may help give confidence and there is precedence to=
 doing<br>
&gt; things to prevent typo blunders - a public address has a four byte che=
cksum<br>
&gt; to reduce the odds of a typo.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This kind of mistake is rare, so a fix could be included in the coming=
 HF<br>
&gt; for the possible July 2017 block increase.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you for your time.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alice Wonder<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
--<br>
Henning Kopp<br>
Institute of Distributed Systems<br>
Ulm University, Germany<br>
<br>
Office: O27 - 3402<br>
Phone: <a href=3D"tel:%2B49%20731%2050-24138" value=3D"+497315024138">+49 7=
31 50-24138</a><br>
Web: <a href=3D"http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~kopp" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.uni-ulm.de/in/vs/~kopp</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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