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Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:43:02 -0400
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From: Ivan Brightly <ibrightly@gmail.com>
To: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
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Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee
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Yep - similarly: you live in a neighborhood with a local coffee store. Sure
you could use a stolen credit card or a fake $5 bill, but it's not worth
the risk of being caught for a $3 coffee. And on the other side, the store
can deal with 1% of transactions getting reversed or having a fake bill so
they don't change their procedures.

Perfection is not necessary in all situations.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> wrote=
:

>
> > On Jun 19, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:23:03 AM Aaron Voisine wrote:
> >> They don't need to be made cryptographically safe, they just have to b=
e
> >> safer than, for instance, credit card payments that can be charged
> back. As
> >> long as it's reasonably good in practice, that's fine.
> >
> > They never will be. You can get a decent rate of success merely by
> making one
> > transaction propagate fast (eg, 1 input, 1 output) and the other slow
> (eg,
> > 1000 inputs, 1000 outputs) and choosing your peers carefully. The only
> reason
> > unconfirmed transactions aren't double spent today is because nobody is
> > seriously *trying*.
> >
> > Luke
> >
>
>
> Newspapers are often sold in vending machines that make it possible for
> anyone to just pay the price of one and take them all=E2=80=A6and most of=
 the time
> they are not that carefully monitored. Why? Because most people have bett=
er
> things to do than try to steal a few newspapers. They probably were much
> more closely monitored earlier in their history=E2=80=A6but once it becam=
e clear
> that despite the obvious attack vector very few people actually try to ga=
me
> it, vendors figured it wasn=E2=80=99t really that big a risk. Same thing =
applies to
> people trying to steal a piece of bubble gum at the cash register at a
> convenience store by double-spending.
>
> - Eric Lombrozo
>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yep - similarly: you live in a neighborhood with a local c=
offee store. Sure you could use a stolen credit card or a fake $5 bill, but=
 it&#39;s not worth the risk of being caught for a $3 coffee. And on the ot=
her side, the store can deal with 1% of transactions getting reversed or ha=
ving a fake bill so they don&#39;t change their procedures.<div><br></div><=
div>Perfection is not necessary in all situations.</div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 12:02 =
AM, Eric Lombrozo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:elombrozo@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">elombrozo@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
&gt; On Jun 19, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Luke Dashjr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:luke@da=
shjr.org">luke@dashjr.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:23:03 AM Aaron Voisine wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; They don&#39;t need to be made cryptographically safe, they just h=
ave to be<br>
&gt;&gt; safer than, for instance, credit card payments that can be charged=
 back. As<br>
&gt;&gt; long as it&#39;s reasonably good in practice, that&#39;s fine.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; They never will be. You can get a decent rate of success merely by mak=
ing one<br>
&gt; transaction propagate fast (eg, 1 input, 1 output) and the other slow =
(eg,<br>
&gt; 1000 inputs, 1000 outputs) and choosing your peers carefully. The only=
 reason<br>
&gt; unconfirmed transactions aren&#39;t double spent today is because nobo=
dy is<br>
&gt; seriously *trying*.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Luke<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
Newspapers are often sold in vending machines that make it possible for any=
one to just pay the price of one and take them all=E2=80=A6and most of the =
time they are not that carefully monitored. Why? Because most people have b=
etter things to do than try to steal a few newspapers. They probably were m=
uch more closely monitored earlier in their history=E2=80=A6but once it bec=
ame clear that despite the obvious attack vector very few people actually t=
ry to game it, vendors figured it wasn=E2=80=99t really that big a risk. Sa=
me thing applies to people trying to steal a piece of bubble gum at the cas=
h register at a convenience store by double-spending.<br>
<br>
- Eric Lombrozo<br>
<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-d=
evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/l=
ists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
<br>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/=
listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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