Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2E4C0037 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:30:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B399360A5E for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:30:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org B399360A5E Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 header.b=GNvVOq0I X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id knmIet9-W-Ea for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-il1-x136.google.com (mail-il1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AB3B60A5D for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:30:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 4AB3B60A5D Received: by mail-il1-x136.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-35d725ac060so15970095ab.2 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 16:30:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702859457; x=1703464257; darn=lists.linuxfoundation.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ecINzRDpERPm0UVS4OPGoNsnaxt9sh1L4KZBcphxHTI=; b=GNvVOq0IVVtYzfGGgoFYIPFvrzj9pBJnqAuIOmP3zaw1HpU2p2X2w282F2xCQS7Apt c4rFPwTuEhGv4bcjMCjfX7B5WiZCGJOj09UnPRKiTDsTwL04J6TzDEKzY6kstV1MxQrA l4FjnHael/eM1EDAheOuDZ27A1OK8+fDJ2UcaM1iJf9yaPM8D6gKM34MqGFrT4DYRwtk X661CyMlJCCv0BGw5p3PXJkm11zTER0DHekNwQe8xD8KXpZ/fy0qmZNdesrerT0T/dwu v55l1y7GsXwI6uN4wN801IYZ9f0P5YD+vqkZeM1LbDu7w1sea0HFBQcgChB2WJJDU/36 wLxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702859457; x=1703464257; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ecINzRDpERPm0UVS4OPGoNsnaxt9sh1L4KZBcphxHTI=; b=UfTWDEp5S3W4L1nLVQEJ5piou52TTWStO+zWv25gNKJR+vsICL6mKHv/IebvLqJW9X LLc3ddP/NehPndF+2Yt1QkStP49Y9Tjwg7caDLoHTfBsUfMv1+NAfsTAcRWgRS21cfRS hd2ekMjoD8t8N8Qd+euPb5nCbaZhfqSWrN8jib2/OgsfwB5xE5cw6sSRw7zwbwE0VrFg GwxaL9miO39omYBpZItSsjStuDbzNxJXCgOxl97oS9vk0/CNOfiYQEXex1SXtRo/v2ah HlA79GREfutZk40WIL5TyBbF7StOR8aKCVvItlIKo/h+BatXT3znQMVI9y1iIAzTqu37 2McA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz2jNj05lZKNQEYd5loDrsGRQoQgunj9doL1ePXPqVzs3ofURyp Zs2vtNaDvHSpRQXZkIdElu0KNy8F8HVHHuV97FQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFMaSK9TAzi2ZEtSqXBbtgsmd/ddpIymFlF7d+ZB2DnZQATKQRWrU3pe2gJi+SAncfXPPNh5u1YlaTTdvVdZPo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:2188:b0:35d:59a2:1275 with SMTP id j8-20020a056e02218800b0035d59a21275mr24630844ila.33.1702859457233; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 16:30:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nagaev Boris Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 21:30:19 -0300 Message-ID: To: ArmchairCryptologist , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:35:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Addressing the possibility of profitable fee manipulation attacks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:31:00 -0000 On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 1:47=E2=80=AFPM ArmchairCryptologist via bitcoin-de= v wrote: > Critically, this means that the higher the ratio of the hashrate is parti= cipating, the lower the cost of the attack. If 100% of miners participate w= ith a ratio of transactions equal to their hashrate, the cost of the attack= is zero, since every participating miner will get back on average 100% of = the fees they contributed, and 0% of the fees will be lost to honest miners= (of which there are none). It would not be an equilibrium, because each of them can increase his profit by not participating. He can still collect fees from fee-stuffing transactions of others and high fees from transactions of normal users. > Observe also that miners would not have to actively coordinate or share f= unds in any way to participate. If a miner with 10% of the participating ha= shrate contributes 10% of the fee-stuffing transactions, they would also ge= t back on average 10% of the total fees paid by transactions that are inclu= ded in blocks mined by participating miners, giving them 10% of the profits= . As such, each participating miner would simply have to watch the mempool = to verify that the other participating miners are still broadcasting their = agreed rate/ratio of transactions, the rest should average out over time. He can pretend to have less hashrate and mine some blocks under the table. For example, a miner who has 10% real hash rate could say to other colluding miners that he only has 5%. Another 5% are secretly allocated to a new pool. So his share of costs of fee-stuffing transactions decreases, while he actually collects the same amount of fees using both public and secret parts of his hash rate. Eventually every rational participant of this collusion will do this and the ratio of participating miners will decrease. --=20 Best regards, Boris Nagaev