Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VZQVj-0003Ee-Db for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:23:59 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.223.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.171; envelope-from=pieter.wuille@gmail.com; helo=mail-ie0-f171.google.com; Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com ([209.85.223.171]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VZQVh-0001zT-Ff for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:23:59 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id tp5so4862201ieb.30 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:23:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.170.225 with SMTP id ap1mr2920429igc.47.1382642632008; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.141.136 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:23:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <796AC330-56EF-43D2-9935-5409824A4F33@godofgod.co.uk> <0F445FFE-FA1A-4A64-9A28-C734E744B5F7@godofgod.co.uk> <5231AF5E.8080903@gk2.sk> <15F27A88-53BF-4149-A8FF-282350312B92@godofgod.co.uk> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 21:23:51 +0200 Message-ID: From: Pieter Wuille To: slush Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: github.com] -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (pieter.wuille[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1VZQVh-0001zT-Ff Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP0039 Mnemonic code for generating deterministic keys X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:23:59 -0000 This is probably too late in the discussion, and I certainly don't want to derail any standard being formed. But if it is controversial, I want to offer my own suggestion. This is a proposal I wrote a year ago, but never spent enough work to push it as a standard: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102349.0 It needs some work, but I believe it may be a base for a superior system than what is being proposed here. As the scheme linked above has built-in configurable difficulty and checksums, the word set being used doesn't need to function for checking anymore. You could use any dictionary/language/text generator, and feed it into the system - the software on the other side doesn't need to use the same dictionary. The disadvantage is of course that it cannot encode arbitrary data - it can only be used to generate a random seed. It does have some theoretical advantages, though (see link). -- Pieter On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:26 PM, slush wrote: > We've reflected many comments about BIP39 wordlist from the community and I > think the wordlist is much better now. Specifically we removed many of > theoretically offensive words as well as we implemented algorithm for > detecting words with similar characters (cat/eat) and we resolved these > duplicities. I'm now quite happy with the wordlist and I want to ask you for > next (final?) round of comments. > > From other features, we added password protection of seed and seed hardening > (against bruteforcing) using Rijndael cipher. This has been chosen because > its blocksize can be 128, 192 or 256 bits, so it fits length of desired > seeds. Also there are Rijndael implementations in every language. Btw > password protection has one interesting feature - plausible deniability. It > allows user to have one mnemonic and by using it with different passwords, > it will generate different BIP32 wallets.... (wink wink) > > I want to be pretty clear that we need to close this topic somehow, because > we want to use such algorithm in Trezor (which deadline is coming quick) and > also other wallet developers want to implement such algorithm into clients > to be compatible with Trezor. There were quite strict requirements for such > algorithm (like the possibility to convert mnemonic to seed as well as seed > to mnemonic) and I think we found a good solution. I'm wildly asking you for > constructive comments, but saying "it's a crap, I don't like it" won't help > anything. > > Thanks, > slush > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Matthew Mitchell > wrote: >> >> I removed some more but I haven't added enough back in. It was taking far >> longer than expected so I gave up, but maybe someone else can try to add >> some more: >> >> >> https://github.com/MatthewLM/python-mnemonic/blob/master/mnemonic/wordlist/english.txt >> >> On 12 Sep 2013, at 13:11, Pavol Rusnak wrote: >> >> > On 10/09/13 23:03, Matthew Mitchell wrote: >> >> Maybe it would have been better without the aggressive words? >> > >> > I revisited the wordlist and replaced around 67 words that can be >> > found offensive in some context. >> > >> > -- >> > Best Regards / S pozdravom, >> > >> > Pavol Rusnak >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: >> > 1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT >> > 2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT >> > 3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks >> > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=51271111&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Bitcoin-development mailing list >> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: >> 1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT >> 2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT >> 3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=51271111&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > October Webinars: Code for Performance > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. > Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most > from > the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >