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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 21:23:51 +0200
Message-ID: <CAPg+sBjFAJrDx=dzU3nWCiaUBEiD5fZ2B1aMHGgT1gE402N0Kg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>
To: slush <slush@centrum.cz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP0039 Mnemonic code for generating
 deterministic keys
Precedence: list

This is probably too late in the discussion, and I certainly don't
want to derail any standard being formed. But if it is controversial,
I want to offer my own suggestion.

This is a proposal I wrote a year ago, but never spent enough work to
push it as a standard:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102349.0

It needs some work, but I believe it may be a base for a superior
system than what is being proposed here. As the scheme linked above
has built-in configurable difficulty and checksums, the word set being
used doesn't need to function for checking anymore. You could use any
dictionary/language/text generator, and feed it into the system - the
software on the other side doesn't need to use the same dictionary.

The disadvantage is of course that it cannot encode arbitrary data -
it can only be used to generate a random seed. It does have some
theoretical advantages, though (see link).

-- 
Pieter


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:26 PM, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote:
> We've reflected many comments about BIP39 wordlist from the community and I
> think the wordlist is much better now. Specifically we removed many of
> theoretically offensive words as well as we implemented algorithm for
> detecting words with similar characters (cat/eat) and we resolved these
> duplicities. I'm now quite happy with the wordlist and I want to ask you for
> next (final?) round of comments.
>
> From other features, we added password protection of seed and seed hardening
> (against bruteforcing) using Rijndael cipher. This has been chosen because
> its blocksize can be 128, 192 or 256 bits, so it fits length of desired
> seeds. Also there are Rijndael implementations in every language. Btw
> password protection has one interesting feature - plausible deniability. It
> allows user to have one mnemonic and by using it with different passwords,
> it will generate different BIP32 wallets.... (wink wink)
>
> I want to be pretty clear that we need to close this topic somehow, because
> we want to use such algorithm in Trezor (which deadline is coming quick) and
> also other wallet developers want to implement such algorithm into clients
> to be compatible with Trezor. There were quite strict requirements for such
> algorithm (like the possibility to convert mnemonic to seed as well as seed
> to mnemonic) and I think we found a good solution. I'm wildly asking you for
> constructive comments, but saying "it's a crap, I don't like it" won't help
> anything.
>
> Thanks,
> slush
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Matthew Mitchell
> <matthewmitchell@godofgod.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I removed some more but I haven't added enough back in. It was taking far
>> longer than expected so I gave up, but maybe someone else can try to add
>> some more:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/MatthewLM/python-mnemonic/blob/master/mnemonic/wordlist/english.txt
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2013, at 13:11, Pavol Rusnak <stick@gk2.sk> wrote:
>>
>> > On 10/09/13 23:03, Matthew Mitchell wrote:
>> >> Maybe it would have been better without the aggressive words?
>> >
>> > I revisited the wordlist and replaced around 67 words that can be
>> > found offensive in some context.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best Regards / S pozdravom,
>> >
>> > Pavol Rusnak <stick@gk2.sk>
>> >
>> >
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