Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:17 -0700 Received: from mail-oi1-f188.google.com ([209.85.167.188]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrI85-00086o-G2 for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:17 -0700 Received: by mail-oi1-f188.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3c37b995ed6sf4343864b6e.3 for ; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:17 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711979711; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=uy3kLdKc8/mFyb+Ggb9pB/r2ZihBlVkS0smCXKTpjE1rOdL5RtLhT71tRFiE3TXs4b 0zUszhcaGCx7D8TrB+Oz6JyceSZtJeGOoTZBjq6R1o8jT/YYgP6dVCVl+ZSwfFIv8Rx9 LArx5poY77ZY7zxhxTc6Te7aL9F1z4nakBbnyWG1Lcc7BrrjPK/0hswvoAxbMP5Bgm0K H+upQED5oOAREdx7rwLKyKVzAe/+gmBtq6SKvIIqgz+QwYE264W+QqlNAYRQrm32vNZN LRmARE8Dm5qgWd3OV2MxciHEc6SeBznF1/E0PNmwNUJ2ciBLhNiR1PGa7BCdWsdu8Mv9 b1oA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:feedback-id:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject :cc:from:to:date:sender:dkim-signature; bh=SoWm2PyU/JhS4eWjmcZOdZWz6a/xJNCSMsulMbvUQxQ=; fh=fO2sIsyzOeojrvF55X9Tv/FJiRVcazF9kX7zMUPn6+A=; b=JRzN/mpkqlkMPX4muNUPsDlvRytmHhSU26/ShXhUxahrKrK18EHh9J9ufY3tZ6k59g 1HgnsVQxYq7KX/TpAlVwlqMMOoMNc8h3Ml4mz2TEGn+Qs/jAX2O8XqEkTyjoICRaLpD5 dHknNG1X9xMtQhzJyl1RPDRMe9Dcrs/RjIG+AZ+BBZyFYNC5quNJ3V43li+muEKmxi+3 eHDyhAdFqiyFKSCWcwh6/50oj4f34yi2wtdRfDaYofv6vg6xqm7zImUWxfYyu8HCfP3H xJXQCMfctuUSpuh1e9G/sl6GoXZVNcQIVbrl37PYsUWf3MJxDN/NWBpBv6dFyOJ9nlu8 4xcQ==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@wuille.net header.s=protonmail3 header.b=EUVRq3SN; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bitcoin-dev@wuille.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wuille.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1711979711; x=1712584511; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :feedback-id:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:from:to :date:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SoWm2PyU/JhS4eWjmcZOdZWz6a/xJNCSMsulMbvUQxQ=; b=Why5djrCb50MQwy6h1E06ZbRurc2X0QHkH7LgK6wcbkqSWr2wbDRA4zUDenQHSX1lg HxVTSI6KCoeTRYV6svHMIfr8Jsdgy3d3GDWLqPBizGRFofIwc18UydLBcMK0Q+S51xm3 xP/7OFZ7vrJZ3FphmE1ivKUhgecFnES/tZ5jyO/+wlYyL2pW9GYV+9f9QlZQZSJcMRkZ XqCH+WCRzSzzHQWaLT8gcsOVw7Sd/i5R+W3DYdC2+OnuX59NRODBP5Rz1oCO2N5EzGiA W1fyKX+JbM4eNbDOOhmZnKiRP15Jg8Y3PoDbMIfCUV+mMS1koHTqvhlFB0KQGYmVF/01 pprg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1711979711; x=1712584511; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :feedback-id:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:from:to :date:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=SoWm2PyU/JhS4eWjmcZOdZWz6a/xJNCSMsulMbvUQxQ=; b=l9B0uMa21bxz97mRCGbf/ZYMP7vKLha2Rm751aUQ8fM9QylvU8qcSlSo9xPUNQKIew Sib2pnhIpcFXP3XiEOpOL/3+yvNJGtTicaKGsb5aaabOkEC9Lyjal+++IBUSugj+CbHC ESZmuIGwyQFFqdYh9xRjjPvj5doIwHvidi2lgX09qirzn7fVGG5/C7DQLfgZ+nu9WFLf 8ZRke1QmM3oCsLhndrjLi3Yj4AXCYdVESqJSMEPVGMWzIggEZEsMJDiA9JNe5gI+zWfo GcDfxuILV0jgsCRyDfrMBYIi7MN6c1g+61k3+OHW/eTU8wMI1r/ufWtV0bDYM7aaO4eK 7e8Q== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWBBUJNesB5wgzGndf0qEG6TKr48zJsvZN7ZLnNSsv7GeT+P7EVHBMHOiWhJZo2Cn6fFMGwn2O3S4qKsyjWvk8Hsws1ln4= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxA14H5RVXZPIHnvs4wj8tbocCwDLxnN40o13a72S2sJIJ9hQ7l YY7qmaJOAhDcV7i64YrEbUYfe4q6E6e/r7M3ugVTqcyTUpXEtw4z X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFZ1M64+AlD+Gp8FUUom5QBJNOn1Zl3y8WTYTgrALVYdix/yEhD6VlM9nNzFS4PReiJAu5Plw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1b2b:b0:3c4:eed6:f1b7 with SMTP id bx43-20020a0568081b2b00b003c4eed6f1b7mr2167769oib.13.1711979710941; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:ac8:598e:0:b0:432:cefa:db9 with SMTP id e14-20020ac8598e000000b00432cefa0db9ls2170865qte.1.-pod-prod-09-us; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWxxsI8hFaBjk2K6zYDgaQuO/sllIbgMp9TVV0uN8L0M/j4/v4UqNSbLBdKzj4zjHF8DWIQTbcwSeZgll+bFJfFYDCC3qfSy8JC5oo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1890:b0:431:503e:4273 with SMTP id v16-20020a05622a189000b00431503e4273mr723437qtc.11.1711979709834; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2953:b0:78a:59df:2777 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-78b8a9a4eb4ms85a; Mon, 1 Apr 2024 06:38:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCVRuvxQmFKFquxN6RC/qIp8J9Bf5VZesEwQTLahwpbPYSZKwkQWyYZr7QDUesRUCUCynFlrAEqNe6iFh2Xls22Eutuf4hWRZ4ivrmQ= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ce88:0:b0:33e:3d3c:46f0 with SMTP id r8-20020adfce88000000b0033e3d3c46f0mr6118736wrn.0.1711978687919; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:38:07 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711978687; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=rQHl2jnI4W3DV0FBkcVrMtiVggENeKihbLZsxwoJZZOfT8D5L7zz7ucf7VoZ9THYfq Z8DLuqEJN/uIQVmwhBOGp0xoO0BxgB/ZLc4EoLPPWvmM1CT7sUzyJC3N7geNZVPI4SFY qT2UWo2aBXYbC5VyDDiru1uC5ayBx1ig7MCJn87BOqLDpONyuvY7TmjSN+CAMDCSls8K WENPA8pTiYO2j8NVQMz8eXebFhkc3a/vnMWnIy7pTBWNz3ujsrzyy4fiHeVH+vJBA6jz kfsloEnp9YQd929ay69hPfFoR1S38XET77DAVl+XDAbcmSMMIoZx3qBN1iHKXfAy/1At 7u/A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:feedback-id:references :in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:from:to:date:dkim-signature; bh=WwJ3eg09giHFUO7+klFlHUkHpyQI/ntNUo41mtuXOhw=; fh=fAq3JYEizDot92BKuegybjIuoeZRh3j9hsowwdCMQSU=; b=p+pxSQDUbJHWRwVi7A/I2Z5zwconXyAu4vSr13T3vGvqu3UbXHZpHgm8LF9lfM2DqC +pAMyWpVdetEwi9gK4Sv8051N+n4CmDoSe5g5lT3/fJslvMTAl72ZJFl4f02idXF2NQa IB8QFW4e9nw/C8qTBn/NDfxHQysThJw7ANZ3KchD+E2qIpfcYIiM/Hlbz6+8jvT7+1Ob 0cFO8JxRiKHbQ+L/oOGorKfNXOwv8Cz3B5Co2bHuTYuybtVwgkxybWYY51SW1WgnmvXx VbRHxb1df9EwlvYtm4rh989PGiGs/eZZdIBOYOsUsNKad01bB+zUQqaGQ/tOtEVlJnTC 7qaA==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@wuille.net header.s=protonmail3 header.b=EUVRq3SN; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bitcoin-dev@wuille.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wuille.net Received: from mail-4323.proton.ch (mail-4323.proton.ch. [185.70.43.23]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k8-20020a5d6d48000000b0033cddf15870si301117wri.6.2024.04.01.06.38.07 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 01 Apr 2024 06:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.70.43.23; Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 13:37:59 +0000 To: Jameson Lopp From: Pieter Wuille Cc: Peter Todd , Nagaev Boris , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 19463299:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: bitcoin-dev@wuille.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@wuille.net header.s=protonmail3 header.b=EUVRq3SN; spf=pass (google.com: domain of bitcoin-dev@wuille.net designates 185.70.43.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bitcoin-dev@wuille.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wuille.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On Monday, April 1st, 2024 at 8:54 AM, Jameson Lopp wrote: > It sounds like folks think testnet is useful enough to continue maintaini= ng. > I think it's a fair point that testnet should strive to be as similar to = mainnet as possible. If we fix the difficulty reset edge case then that wil= l arguably make testnet EVEN MORE like mainnet by removing the "block storm= " phenomenon. Agreed on both points. Signet is useful, but it is probably not the right s= olution for everything. And testnet has been reset before, it shouldn't be = a big deal to reset it again. > Changing the supply schedule is an interesting proposal, though I'd count= er that fixing the difficulty reset will naturally make the supply schedule= more evenly distributed over time, plus we can hopefully move toward reset= ting the network before long. I'd be slightly worried about changing consen= sus rules on testnet that deviate significantly from mainnet because I bet = there are plenty of systems running that validate that rule or make assumpt= ions that it's the same as mainnet, and deploying such a change could cause= far more grief for the developer ecosystem. I think there is an easier alternative to changing the supply rule: the int= ention to reset it again when its subsidy drops too low. That may even also= counteract the development of a non-zero market price for the coins. As for using other measures to prevent too large difficulty variations... I= 'm not sure that's desirable, because it always cuts both ways (nicely demo= nstrated by the "allow difficulty 1 rule" on testnet3 backfiring and enabli= ng block storms!). For applications that actually need very predictable blo= ck rate, there is signet. For others, just the normal mainnet rules are pro= bably not too terrible. I would be ok with having a somewhat reduced block = interval (say a few days instead of 2 weeks) if that's not deemed to comple= x to implement across the ecosystem, but I don't think it's that important. --=20 Pieter --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/wKrcm6SEjcG_7UmxByP-rDDVajB7-oYJRF9p_BjLe5XVzxVV9nCB8RsTAXcD5vF_= rWxUmLK4HOM7zV7U4-kZSUO9Ccj4jEehsbbb7FD45GQ%3D%40wuille.net.