Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 076E1AF4 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:41:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wm0-f47.google.com (mail-wm0-f47.google.com [74.125.82.47]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3BE6165 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:41:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-f47.google.com with SMTP id k4so16513535wmc.1 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:41:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stampery.co; s=google; h=from:reply-to:subject:to:references:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uRz5LmCf/uWxSuKx9ELGBoTO/6ZAPlWckQvwjFIle44=; b=jQLVqBNnXxPs+t3vVuzZksKUTXljIWmMY+lBxck7PSstXJQbIASFIeqCQbPMYKz0uB Ioccfl+sBk+8d/nasGTmMw6AbhOfWAT8zrQFw0176TuVUo5YsParGW+ZrYOt882nIiI2 lxI15of3/+upUe6upkUEbsevd7j1s9KCzLAsA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:reply-to:subject:to:references:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uRz5LmCf/uWxSuKx9ELGBoTO/6ZAPlWckQvwjFIle44=; b=DPv775tJv/lb6kj66p0FK7kXO/WwmHyRntOzZeP+MgIbQn4GJGBLNtQdpR5KGxAzeO Fs3rBCAy7TF4GoWNOyCwElzm6EZ0FgrEKy6uBkL66anroRWx1+QiIIRd0bMbEZqeusmC l0lTrmziIe0LQwuWqI4GV2FALI5kDKKNZ0lOHe/eFVDJYZcgG60ZLk0li7mO5x0wH1Lk 6AT9YgrUc3mMEDdGbn6+9Q7+VKLDqkFmuHLCOyu9D9yMjk7/BTIkvOknysiY2oTHXTb1 CRlGg2dDtmVaiot2cborHiwhlKWVzb/UVd40stn1BwWU6FbPIP0MMCeYZ0xbkTFMMwQe hdcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXWAw/V3rVBsQ7w6Mw8p/xNsaeYIXC7CksVszK8yZOfAgzWtHmO 71S2JptfcET2tMyT07q+EO/AeFXqP20= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Ss6iuSPBl7Lbmf/q+x4anVv9KZh+vUTIQexhSJcAlHfTjzjrcyX7IeZaQiDx46NPSj2NZr0w== X-Received: by 10.28.92.133 with SMTP id q127mr1613468wmb.26.1508420513165; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.42] (32.red-83-45-227.dynamicip.rima-tde.net. [83.45.227.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q7sm2082351wrg.97.2017.10.19.06.41.52 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Ad=c3=a1n_S=c3=a1nchez_de_Pedro_Crespo?=" X-Google-Original-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ad=c3=a1n_S=c3=a1nchez_de_Pedro_Crespo?= Reply-To: adan@stampery.com To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org References: Organization: Stampery Message-ID: <40b6ef7b-f518-38cd-899a-8f301bc7ac3a@stampery.com> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:41:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:50:59 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Improving Scalability via Block Time Decrease X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:41:56 -0000 Blockchains with fast confirmation times are currently believed to suffer from reduced security due to a high stale rate. As blocks take a certain time to propagate through the network, if miner A mines a block and then miner B happens to mine another block before miner A's block propagates to B, miner B's block will end up wasted and will not "contribute to network security". Furthermore, there is a centralization issue: if miner A is a mining pool with 30% hashpower and B has 10% hashpower, A will have a risk of producing a stale block 70% of the time (since the other 30% of the time A produced the last block and so will get mining data immediately) whereas B will have a risk of producing a stale block 90% of the time. Thus, if the block interval is short enough for the stale rate to be high, A will be substantially more efficient simply by virtue of its size. With these two effects combined, blockchains which produce blocks quickly are very likely to lead to one mining pool having a large enough percentage of the network hashpower to have de facto control over the mining process. Another possible implication of reducing the average block time is that block size should be reduced accordingly. In an hypothetical 5 minutes block size Bitcoin blockchain, there would be twice the block space available for miners to include transactions, which could lead to 2 immediate consequences: (1) the blockchain could grow up to twice the rate, which is known to be bad for decentralization; and (2) transaction fees might go down, making it cheaper for spammers to bloat our beloved UTXO sets. There have been numerous proposals that tried to overcome the downsides of faster blocks, the most noteworthy probably being the "Greedy Heaviest Observed Subtree" (GHOST) protocol: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~yoni_sompo/pubs/15/btc_scalability_full.pdf Personally, I can't see why Bitcoin would need or how could it even benefit at all from faster blocks. Nevertheless, I would really love if someone in the list who has already run the numbers could bring some valid points on why 10 minutes is the optimal rate (other than "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"). -- Adán Sánchez de Pedro Crespo CTO, Stampery Inc. San Francisco - Madrid