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From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:53:24 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0OKXaUD6MnN4N6RGbNwrXx43jBm9MiELQK6BRw1OL3HNA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cea266910820518cbf9a9
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer
 to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers
Precedence: list

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On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan <
> laanwj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Like in any open source project there is lots of decision making ability
>> for code changes. I'd say look at the changelog for e.g. 0.11
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.11/doc/release-notes.md#0110-change-log,
>> or follow pull requests for a while, to see how many decisions about
>> changes are made from day to day. No, I'm not sitting on my hands, and so
>> is none of the other contributors that you'd like to get rid of.
>>
>
> The analogy goes further even. Even though I disagree with some of the
> changes you're making, I respect Mike's (and anyone's) right to make a fork
> of Bitcoin Core. That's how open source works: if people disagree with
> changes made or not made, they can maintain their own version. However:
>
>
>> Consensus changes are *much* more difficult, on the other hand. Even
>> relatively straightforward softforks come with a long discussion process
>> (see BIP62, BIP66). A hardfork is hard to do at the best of times (everyone
>> needs to upgrade their software!), and simply not possible if almost the
>> entire technical community disagrees with you.
>>
>
> Consensus changes - in particular hardforks - are not about making a
> change to the software. You are effectively asking users of the system to
> migrate to a new system. Perhaps one which is a philosophical successor to
> the old one, but a different system, with new rules that are incompatible
> with the old one.
>

Indeed.  I think Mike is glossing over this major facet.

Consensus changes - worded another way - change Bitcoin's Constitution -
The Rules that everyone in the system is -forced- to follow, or be ignored
by the system.

Changing bitcoin's rules IS IN NO WAY like Wikipedia or other open source
software.

-- 
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc.      https://bitpay.com/

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Pieter Wuille <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:pieter.wuille@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pieter.wuille@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><span class=3D"">On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Wladimir J. van der=
 Laan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:laanwj@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">laanwj@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></span><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">Like in any open source project there is lots of decision making ab=
ility for code changes. I&#39;d say look at the changelog for e.g. 0.11 <a =
href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.11/doc/release-notes.md#0=
110-change-log" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bit=
coin/bitcoin/blob/0.11/doc/release-notes.md#0110-change-log</a>, or follow =
pull requests for a while, to see how many decisions about changes are made=
 from day to day. No, I&#39;m not sitting on my hands, and so is none of th=
e other contributors that you&#39;d like to get rid of.<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div></span><div>The analogy goes further even. Even though I disagr=
ee with some of the changes you&#39;re making, I respect Mike&#39;s (and an=
yone&#39;s) right to make a fork of Bitcoin Core. That&#39;s how open sourc=
e works: if people disagree with changes made or not made, they can maintai=
n their own version. However:<br></div><span class=3D""><div>=C2=A0</div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Consensus changes are *much* more difficult, on the other hand. Even relati=
vely straightforward softforks come with a long discussion process (see BIP=
62, BIP66). A hardfork is hard to do at the best of times (everyone needs t=
o upgrade their software!), and simply not possible if almost the entire te=
chnical community disagrees with you.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span=
><div>Consensus changes - in particular hardforks - are not about making a =
change to the software. You are effectively asking users of the system to m=
igrate to a new system. Perhaps one which is a philosophical successor to t=
he old one, but a different system, with new rules that are incompatible wi=
th the old one.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ind=
eed.=C2=A0 I think Mike is glossing over this major facet.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Consensus changes - worded another way - change Bitcoin&#39;s Cons=
titution - The Rules that everyone in the system is -forced- to follow, or =
be ignored by the system.</div><div><br></div><div>Changing bitcoin&#39;s r=
ules IS IN NO WAY like Wikipedia or other open source software.</div></div>=
<div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature">Jeff Garzik<br>Bitcoin=
 core developer and open source evangelist<br>BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitpay.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://bitpay.com/=
</a></div>
</div></div>

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