Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YDdJb-0004xp-EM for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:14:11 +0000 Received: from mail-qc0-f180.google.com ([209.85.216.180]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YDdJa-0006Bc-3o for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:14:11 +0000 Received: by mail-qc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id r5so26024772qcx.11 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:14:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:organization:mime-version :to:subject:references:in-reply-to:openpgp:content-type; bh=iUaHwh4TAWqd7YvGJ1cR2lI8OVOjYdO+uPehlDE+0SU=; b=MprRUMOq4qfydb7BndHOy5T2J0+77GJLufw1XAuQ5CoJ0sQlLgNwg4/8Fhb90sImul nFlOOxAIDmed8i95Gu0y9NKSsmgFfbqtZIPrgm21hfdIScp7JqwvdOVkf1X5g9SPE+Sg 7G0QxkzgM7hz1iRfouvxMEnJcsIAcgmErvAVzBEcM8g+0KjoXBNnLgtf0rH1W8qVjCtE mjrb7TdkL61uCu1EGdbZacjiE4PlDWfCyQQK6ZOxOeyF6+Odqc8q/+VNjXgs2x6s0EFr HKExunaB45zLNfbjuzgKkYZEhad78lXOI5J7kCH01QPss3PHm+N96CFRSfhOkeNOHeYd hldA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkV0Ox6P4pTcdB7ErCuoEO53FU/JurxKCv3uM8xHObVPnMnwawcfTs8iq6eI+Mtq7G024FD X-Received: by 10.140.104.229 with SMTP id a92mr57328200qgf.78.1421776052549; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobelium.whale.ddns.net ([108.59.8.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm738844qau.45.2015.01.20.09.47.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.202.198] (unknown [192.168.202.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by nobelium.whale.ddns.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E25C0D110A for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:46:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <54BE94AB.3020207@monetas.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:47:23 -0600 From: Justus Ranvier Organization: Monetas MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck> In-Reply-To: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck> OpenPGP: id=EAD9E623; url=http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2A5FDA70EAD9E623 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070809050806050806020401" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1YDdJa-0006Bc-3o Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The legal risks of auto-updating wallet software; custodial relationships X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:14:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070809050806050806020401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/20/2015 03:46 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > But ultimately we're not going to know until court cases start > happening. In the meantime probably the best advice - other than > getting out of the wallet business! - is to do everything you can > to prevent losses through malicious auto-updates. Create systems > where as many people as possible have to sign off and review an > update before it has the opportunity to spend user funds. Not > having auto-updates at all is a (legally) safe way to achieve that > goal; if you do have them make sure the process by which an update > happens is controlled by more than one person and there are > mechanisms in place to create good audit logs of how exactly an > update happened. > > Finally keep in mind that one of the consequences of a custodial > relationship is that some legal authority might try to *force* you > to seize user funds. StrongCoin made it 100% clear to authorities > that they and sites like them are able to seize funds at will - I > won't be surprised if authorities use that power in the future. The > more automatic and less transparent an update is, the higher the > chance some authority will lean on you to seize funds. So don't > make it easy for yourself to meet those demands. One suggestion you didn't mention was jurisdictional arbitrage - don't be located in the same country as the majority of your users. Or, from the other perspective, users should be strongly encouraged to get their wallet software from companies/organizations not located in the same country as them. - -- Justus Ranvier | Monetas | Public key ID : C3F7BB2638450DB5 | BM-2cTepVtZ6AyJAs2Y8LpcvZB8KbdaWLwKqc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUvpSqAAoJECpf2nDq2eYj0oQQAI62vLPzFrkLZoRw3bIw5GWt 6L8dpLUviRS7ZaQlNB49TT4L4Ky+MJ1PxaHwb4YPxrVcCWDLiJb51CtODduF/9rR 8N4xoQuf/6DhsBHWJE8NDwP+9JUOlY23xdSe/BlLz9N1Ql/EV0HTCu28A9xbhK1L QHgwX3p5/ZCJo7PCARF3o+EZOif5MsA4MdQ11HhyFWN/fgww9AVOIg/0m+tIqkjR yoOzFww4AejC7nxi+Q+elljpvp2Q/Nv8cVOVlp9l4+f9P7sg0em9YUCE+iAxoZTT 7b9soUXFUjWlxFITR5RnjlDUnmra9QhBIhogBQbLelt/vdoRInz+kXxroR2x3uKh EJoet2czRB1oiRKHE4iSAv+1pnavQJDVo5/mUMzeM15zCnQ16Mfu9aOpqvijK0cw u67E4IAPJ2PmUy4sPPJ/4H4FPLmJrSUkLxxzq/4prmLLmeZZvPwjavnULHir4jyG aaxFqMkbeJSeK3hLk7hnlrwpQRAEq7om+EpQ7fAx1lmEoA3eOHaeclh7/XzDwIB4 AK/jX+1ylhGvfuKNzwTQVX8dEzaHRwLAfLfHUNnP80WhBzH5ODicwcOwwOanL6/A 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