Return-Path: <user@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B5EC000B
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:41:10 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8887260B20
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:41:10 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.802
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7,
 SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new);
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=petertodd.org header.b="qhDbSnY/";
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
 header.b="Jt+ZPRB1"
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id 2GMPdfyGzHIb
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:41:09 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com
 [64.147.123.25])
 by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E4C60B0A
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:41:09 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45])
 by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DE33201F01;
 Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:41:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163])
 by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:41:07 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org;
 h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to
 :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender
 :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; bh=+puciWDwLCL6qE5vjGTeQTmjh+WULA
 /kLWvqz8NQKBY=; b=qhDbSnY/gP94Q2/Vc5i1p8iit2TAU50YESb6pV74sfAttk
 XyaaxQmLKMOfqwXQueAMEMEPtJPo7T/HTOFO21o0qdFpq77KGMsazHgNds8WHLp3
 nyrz1oRg0LchY/H1S6F+gFEcYkiGCp57zBh8jRFGc6QlkwOEh0UneejUcWZZvt3p
 nf9H9N9358wQ+0oYsB1LLLh9wpVuS0oIBkITiPhjjIUg6xcESxdthrN7Dsq2UHcZ
 Vbp0Xv6QtWSvhqGASHb+AU25weqD/fywnk2Gx93ogbSS8nQ7ZjRQQeXi3YFrRKbp
 OfFNEPpclM97OnHS494+GBaKdG79fm1Khl6NYnhg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
 messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from
 :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references
 :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy
 :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=+puciWDwLCL6qE5vj
 GTeQTmjh+WULA/kLWvqz8NQKBY=; b=Jt+ZPRB1jyi9atHxddrjIDaYWgtShKR+X
 HFcEnDNReRHqXe9K/+TEvBmvX4ps+DY9ZqUQwuu04LPCHkrBMlvbEk4Wqf7Fns9M
 7p0CBTppEhVF1N3zq6+9G5PUnmLsSKK7idWSyddjVUBc1V/cZIns1kWylj67/gO/
 Hq5MMOZlvgAJPjeADICvX5ukvdJppTA69pS9oJbzp1ZFkR96VsXfJz/EgKtCIhga
 xbNqf5dySO6yDFAFQM7XQkm3+/HZzilBtMpsMhxoGn1BZGcXnwdiQ2ALI9IeGOc+
 epgI2kdMIAjVhQtZ1oFZFoIYAc9gj3U0J6C9SOos+rMc0VGCdhi3w==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:ki4QYj-1nW9_Ze7sO96lMo-nVQG_Id43rU74nrBpaMbkfrJqabbqJA>
 <xme:ki4QYvvhBjfmO0sTe98ANbU7LtVJft2hZez5oL4hGDZ7M8huzRYknZEmSYifLij_W
 0eI6ImTQSYUR7GbmWM>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:ki4QYhASupHBVSRp8pRZ4vtylPwyvwRmNB4YJABDQvT65DznX-PHlLGL1ETBV6csbviiawCLNwLJNXKIrvpGNm6GKIp2eA>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrkedugdduvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf
 curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu
 uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc
 fjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcu
 vfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh
 hnpedtvddtfeeutdegfeehtdelgffhudegvdelteehvdetleekveekjeefteehteeltden
 ucffohhmrghinhepuhhtgihoshdrohhrghdprhhusghinhdrihhopdhpvghtvghrthhoug
 gurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhho
 mhepuhhsvghrsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:ki4QYvd8FwRIdGWDykhd8wZToqbR6TRuI8OHWYZz0bXuUVzjq-CRrQ>
 <xmx:ki4QYoPjPXrOURqm2VO4fpX7XMvJxhuAbU-yVcvQ7BNfH22vcAZFWA>
 <xmx:ki4QYhktbH5AqsXykQ4Fs1r0mUwkSXFqVRORlmdvuLlhvWt7f9kC2Q>
 <xmx:ki4QYiVh0Q56iUy5pAXHrW6Q3MJluceSB0szFvERNm8Z0O_ACpgqYA>
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri,
 18 Feb 2022 18:41:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
 id 829995FB0B; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:41:02 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:41:02 -0500
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>
Message-ID: <YhAujmus3z69cUl7@petertodd.org>
References: <MtetoOZ--3-2@tutanota.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="A9I/wqXlSgkizLe3"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <MtetoOZ--3-2@tutanota.de>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Stumbling into a contentious soft fork activation
 attempt
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:41:10 -0000


--A9I/wqXlSgkizLe3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 02:57:30AM +0100, Prayank wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>=20
> > that current lacks compelling use-cases clearly beneficial to all users
>=20
> All the use cases shared in below links look compelling enough to me and =
we can do anything that a programmer could think of using such restrictions:
>=20
>  https://utxos.org/uses/
>=20
> https://rubin.io/archive/

Again, what I said was "compelling use-cases _clearly_ beneficial to _all_
users", not just a small subset. I neither think the use-cases in those lin=
ks
are clearly compelling in the current form, and they of course, don't benef=
it
all users. Indeed, the Drivechains use-case arguably *harms* all users, as
Drivechains is arguably harmful to the security of Bitcoin as a whole.
Similarly, the various new uses for on-chain transactions mentioned as a
use-case arguably harms all existing users by competing for scarce blockcha=
in
space - note how ETH has quite high on chain fees for basic transactions,
because there are so many use-cases where the per-tx value can afford much
higher fees. That kind of expansion of use-case also arguably harms Bitcoin=
 as
a whole by providing more fuel for a future contentious blocksize debate.

Bitcoin is an almost $1 trillion dollar system. We have to very carefully w=
eigh
the benefits of making core consensus changes to that system against the ri=
sks.
Both for each proposal in isolation, as well as the precedent making that
change sets.

--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

--A9I/wqXlSgkizLe3
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=rSLh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--A9I/wqXlSgkizLe3--