From: Vladimir Zaytsev <vladimir.zaytsev@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:39:23 -0400
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To: Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26@gmail.com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] High fees / centralization
Precedence: list


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There must be a way to organize =E2=80=9Cbranches=E2=80=9D of smaller =
activity to join main tree after they grow. Outsider a bit, I see going =
circles here, but not everything must be accepted in the chain. Good =
idea as it is, it=E2=80=99s just too early to record every sight=E2=80=A6.=


> On Mar 30, 2017, at 5:52 PM, Jared Lee Richardson via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> > Further, we are very far from the point (in my appraisal) where fees =
are high enough to block home users from using the network.
>=20
> This depends entirely on the usecase entirely.  Most likely even =
without a blocksize increase, home purchases will be large enough to fit =
on the blocksize in the forseeable future.  Microtransactions(<$0.25) on =
the other hand aren't viable no matter what we try to do - There's just =
too much data.
>=20
> Most likely, transaction fees above $1 per tx will become unappealing =
for many consumers, and above $10 is likely to be niche-level.  It is =
hard to say with any certainty, but average credit card fees give us =
some indications to work with - $1.2 on a $30 transaction, though paid =
by the business and not the consumer.
>=20
> Without blocksize increases, fees higher than $1/tx are basically =
inevitable, most likely before 2020.  Running a node only costs =
$10/month if that.  If we were going to favor node operational costs =
that highly in the weighting, we'd better have a pretty solid =
justification with mathematical models or examples.
>=20
> > We should not throw away the core innovation of monetary sovereignty =
in pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the world's daily transactions.
>=20
> If we can easily have both, why not have both?
>=20
> An altcoin with both will take Bitcoin's monetary sovereignty crown by =
default.  No crown, no usecases, no Bitcoin.
>=20
>=20


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">There must be a way to organize =
=E2=80=9Cbranches=E2=80=9D of smaller activity to join main tree after =
they grow. Outsider a bit, I see going circles here, but not everything =
must be accepted in the chain. Good idea as it is, it=E2=80=99s just too =
early to record every sight=E2=80=A6.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Mar 30, 2017, at 5:52 PM, Jared Lee Richardson via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">&gt;&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D"">Further, =
we are very far from the point (in my appraisal) where fees are high =
enough to block home users from using the network.</span><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">This depends entirely on the usecase =
entirely.&nbsp; Most likely even without a blocksize increase, home =
purchases will be large enough to fit on the blocksize in the forseeable =
future.&nbsp; Microtransactions(&lt;$0.25) on the other hand aren't =
viable no matter what we try to do - There's just too much =
data.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra">Most likely, transaction fees above $1 per tx will =
become unappealing for many consumers, and above $10 is likely to be =
niche-level.&nbsp; It is hard to say with any certainty, but average =
credit card fees give us some indications to work with - $1.2 on a $30 =
transaction, though paid by the business and not the consumer.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Without blocksize increases, fees higher than =
$1/tx are basically inevitable, most likely before 2020.&nbsp; Running a =
node only costs $10/month if that.&nbsp; If we were going to favor node =
operational costs that highly in the weighting, we'd better have a =
pretty solid justification with mathematical models or =
examples.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D"">&gt;&nbsp;<span =
style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D"">We should not throw away the core =
innovation of monetary sovereignty in pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the =
world's daily transactions.<br class=3D""></span><br class=3D"">If we =
can easily have both, why not have both?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">An =
altcoin with both will take Bitcoin's monetary sovereignty crown by =
default.&nbsp; No crown, no usecases, no Bitcoin.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

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