Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SPfL3-0006Bz-C8 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 02 May 2012 19:35:49 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 74.125.82.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.53; envelope-from=etotheipi@gmail.com; helo=mail-wg0-f53.google.com; Received: from mail-wg0-f53.google.com ([74.125.82.53]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1SPfL2-0005jQ-3s for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 02 May 2012 19:35:49 +0000 Received: by wgbfm10 with SMTP id fm10so979519wgb.10 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 12:35:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.213.219 with SMTP id a69mr998404wep.16.1335987341896; Wed, 02 May 2012 12:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.83.103 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 12:35:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1335986730.68336.YahooMailNeo@web121007.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1335808239.18613.YahooMailNeo@web121006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <201205020931.01718.luke@dashjr.org> <201205021230.46349.luke@dashjr.org> <1335986730.68336.YahooMailNeo@web121007.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:35:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: Alan Reiner To: Amir Taaki Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbdf23f02e7804bf12ca7c X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (etotheipi[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1SPfL2-0005jQ-3s Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] new bitcoin.org clients page X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 19:35:49 -0000 --0016e6dbdf23f02e7804bf12ca7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Oh, like I did 3 hours ago? Gah! I replied directly to grarpamp by accident. Sorry if this seems out of place now... I'm all for sorting the clients by "ease of use". We want the smoothest first experience greeting users new to Bitcoin. I have grand plans of defaulting Armory to a standard user mode that is standalone, easy to use, etc. But until then, Armory will remain an a power-users thing, and I'd prefer not to have Bitcoin n00bs emailing me for support before they know what Bitcoin-Qt is, or, more likely, installing Armory alone and then walking away when nothing works. As someone else mentioned previously, the advanced stuff will generally be found by advanced users. I think it should still receive exposure through these means, but not on the top/first row. I personally think the page should say something like "New to Bitcoin? Start experiencing Bitcoin with My Phone , or My Desktop " Put the top 3 on each and either a button for "More Options", or a short list of other options without screenshots, and just descriptions with links. Ideally, it would be sorted by popularity, because that's probably the most important metric that ties together all features into a single number, but we don't have good stats on that. For now, we settle this by putting Bitcoin-Qt up front, and sort everything else by how easy it is for users to get started and perceived popularity and disagreements can be settled by semi-regular rotation. For now, I don't think ordering is super important. No one here is threatening lawsuits for improper placement, and the rotation will be good to keep the main Bitcoin page looking less stagnant, and slowly exposing repeat visitors to the variety of options available. --Alan On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: > This is like the most annoying thing about email. Often with group emails, > we'll be having a conversation then someone will click reply instead of > group reply and the convo will go on for a while. Eventually I'll realise > the persons are missing and add them back in. > > On Yahoo mail (which I use for spam/mailing lists), to do reply all > involves clicking a tab, scrolling down and clicking Reply All. Normally I > instead go through the steps of reply, delete To, re-enter bitco... select > drop down, click send. > > Anyone know how to make reply all the default in mutt? And how can I > exclude it from re-including my own email when I do a group reply so I > don't get the same email again. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Garzik > To: grarpamp > Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] new bitcoin.org clients page > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:58 PM, grarpamp wrote: > >> Try "Reply to All" > > > > That puts the sender in 'to' and list in 'cc', > > which dupes to the sender and eventually > > blows out the to and cc lines as everyone > > chimes in and doesn't trim. 'reply to' solves > > most of that. assuming the list sw can do it. > > "Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > > > > -- > Jeff Garzik > exMULTI, Inc. > jgarzik@exmulti.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --0016e6dbdf23f02e7804bf12ca7c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, like I did 3 hours ago? =A0Gah! =A0I replied directly to grarpamp by ac= cident. =A0Sorry if this seems out of place now...

I'm all for sorting t= he clients by "ease of use". =A0We want the smoothest first exper= ience greeting users new to Bitcoin. =A0I have grand plans of defaulting Ar= mory to a standard user mode that is standalone, easy to use, etc. =A0But u= ntil then, Armory will remain an a power-users thing, and I'd prefer no= t to have Bitcoin n00bs emailing me for support before they know what Bitco= in-Qt is, or, more likely, installing Armory alone and then walking away wh= en nothing works.

As someone else mentioned previously, the advanced stuff wil= l generally be found by advanced users. =A0I think it should still receive = exposure through these means, but not on the top/first row. =A0
<= br>
I personally think the page should say something like "New = to Bitcoin? =A0 Start experiencing Bitcoin with My Phone <menu of phone = options>, or My Desktop <menu of desktop options>" =A0Put the= top 3 on each and either a button for "More Options", or a short= list of other options without screenshots, and just descriptions with link= s. =A0Ideally, it would be sorted by popularity, because that's probabl= y the most important metric that ties together all features into a single n= umber, but we don't have good stats on that. =A0For now, we settle this= by putting Bitcoin-Qt up front, and sort everything else by how easy it is= for users to get started and=A0perceived popularity and disagreements can= =A0be settled by semi-regular rotation. =A0

For now, I don't think ordering is super important.= =A0No one here is threatening lawsuits for improper placement, and the rot= ation will be good to keep the main Bitcoin page looking less stagnant, and= slowly exposing repeat visitors to the variety of options available.

--Alan


<= br>
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Amir Taak= i <zgenjix@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is like the most annoying thing about e= mail. Often with group emails, we'll be having a conversation then some= one will click reply instead of group reply and the convo will go on for a = while. Eventually I'll realise the persons are missing and add them bac= k in.

On Yahoo mail (which I use for spam/mailing lists), to do reply all involve= s clicking a tab, scrolling down and clicking Reply All. Normally I instead= go through the steps of reply, delete To, re-enter bitco... select drop do= wn, click send.

Anyone know how to make reply all the default in mutt? And how can I exclud= e it from re-including my own email when I do a group reply so I don't = get the same email again.



----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@exmult= i.com>
To: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>
Cc: bitcoin-de= velopment@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] new bitcoin.org clients page

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:58 = PM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try "Reply to All"
>
> That puts the sender in 'to' and list in 'cc',
> which dupes to the sender and eventually
> blows out the to and cc lines as everyone
> chimes in and doesn't trim. 'reply to' solves
> most of that. assuming the list sw can do it.

"Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html



--
Jeff Garzik
exMULTI, Inc.
jgarzik@exmulti.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122= 263/
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122= 263/
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment

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