Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C9069D for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:40:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D59C126 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from piha.riseup.net (unknown [10.0.1.162]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CD27C25A9; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:40:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1444869658; bh=TU/lkTwDDKtWKLCK2/qKgFH7Gw3GQSCPaV23DVLUmjs=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=eizOeFL1ZRhJCC2AB0s36nthEc9zLynewH9hUpI1hNlA52jxIr5++2PqHgUzRSlNJ Ubj6rgscQo/HjtTHJKKB/L2JfBY262MSafLs9S/4IsojVcwCTs5XFksZkwoWUQohPN pmjU4lHaPy7xJdMVtagzoin7/7fJGQWqx9XARLxY= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: odinn.cyberguerrilla) with ESMTPSA id 9E71E140F62 To: Luke Dashjr , bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Jeff Garzik References: <201510150017.37007.luke@dashjr.org> From: odinn X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <561EF60F.9030304@riseup.net> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:40:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201510150017.37007.luke@dashjr.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mx1.riseup.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposed list moderation policy and conduct X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:40:59 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I am concerned that someone will always call "off topic" regardless of how on-topic something actually is. There is no objective measure of on-topicness here (or hasn't been) unless we say it has to do with bitcoin development. If you say, "Conversations should remain focused and on-topic," as you have suggested, then presumably you mean, as has also been suggested in the proposed list moderation policy and conduct document, that we "aim to facilitate constructive discussion of issues related to technical development of the bitcoin protocol and the Bitcoin Core reference implementation" and thus, that "on-topic" conversations would necessarily be "related to technical development of the bitcoin protocol and the Bitcoin Core reference implementation." Unfortunately, while that is fairly specific to what this list is about, I think it still will result in a lot of people shouting "Off Topic!" whenever someone mentions something that might even be remotely and slightly off the the range. Thus, I don't think the current language in the proposed list moderation policy and conduct document is really that good, and needs much more discussion and refinement before, well, anything. It would be a shame if every time someone brings up something innovative, new or wonderful, or explores something on the boundaries, they are shouted down with cries of "Off Topic!" Which, by the way, I see happening A Lot on this list. Specifically relating to the subject of Disclosure, It is suggested that people here "*Disclose potential conflicts*" "1. List discussions often involve interested parties. We expect participants to be aware when they are conflicted due to employment or other projects they are involved in, and disclose those interests to other project members. 2. When in doubt, over-disclose. Perceived conflicts of interest are important to address, so that the lists’ decisions are credible even when unpopular, difficult or favorable to the interests of one group over another." I don't doubt that this is a fine plan, but those who work for three letter agencies or have simply signed NDAs (as an example) aren't going to disclose anything, nada ~ but will be here anyway, pushing their personal interests. Reality. Looking forward to discussion. Cheers, O Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev: > On Thursday, October 15, 2015 12:02:21 AM Jeff Garzik via > bitcoin-dev wrote: >> 2. If someone asks for help it is because they need it. Politely >> suggest specific documentation or more appropriate venues where >> appropriate. Avoid aggressive or vague responses. > > This could get noisy. Clarification that only *development* help is > appropriate for the list would improve it. > >> 2. Conversations should remain focused and on-topic. If you must >> change the topic, start a new thread by changing the topic line >> of your emails. > > Probably should note that entirely new threads should be new > messages, *not* merely a reply with a changed topic (as changing > the topic does not in fact start a new thread). > >> 4. Off-topic threads will be directed to other venues. > > Threads like this one are off-topic, yet we have no obvious other > venue for it.. :( > >> *Disclose potential conflicts* > > IMO this seems like not only a waste of time, but also futile for > anyone not exclusively associated with a single > company/organization. > >> If you have concerns about someone’s conduct: * *On-list*: >> discussing conduct on-list, either as part of another message or >> as a standalone thread, is always acceptable. > > Please no. This is off-topic noise. > > Luke _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev > mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > - -- http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWHvYPAAoJEGxwq/inSG8C/AgIAKxEOZpQ5O7cdAGcBceE840d 1Jv29kfErv/+vuasCumbF6yCRljJGqeU/t7YmoWcQzSD5jijBbZ7uB7yXBsoJwyg xELeEAzV2t7v7zLxi569xVKvdaMrIYvwPB2uOQsfmqZ2+PrSlBsRIhcgB9zeuVyK 5Mtb0cHJx7aDmBhhC4r1IQGNfa8zzfdsNU4BqHR2/l6NmH29p9tb7DPC+83O6xY+ ODn6gDRAFsjC+Cy3gsLNf1J4hEvGOkkSVMJIHEmkdJx2gN306rbc7X7DK7CSQX3E vmhAmDj419dpTvciOEjuiROGDhawPnBsO37UZJIVC/6yWe4sDk5JvQULU2HiyDo= =T4vL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----