Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F10BC9C for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-oi0-f47.google.com (mail-oi0-f47.google.com [209.85.218.47]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFEAB241 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f47.google.com with SMTP id f189so89034696oig.3 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:07:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netki.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CEKWdyIbQbEi7JAfPfssd52yUp5BC9uJzYhArBgi3b4=; b=R9uHDcDLhbSnSA5oaNjxpDoO6t00TqfbkY5QhGt9lztXDJuoS5hcg1dAZKhKbhTa9m HYpc3P2Z2tA0f+kRibdb1mFfOP0ZCy1TlnKoeYvweNyc0ui7W1+Lp2fn84ebjLx1S8YM T9jE4J/aZw9DBZbggBsEMFAik2qk+97XUY6H8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=CEKWdyIbQbEi7JAfPfssd52yUp5BC9uJzYhArBgi3b4=; b=lLQ/cdXhZAl+UA8q5jbFsoTuwsjOsmEHsgfKFJzA5HOGHlnXvAdacnCzEnLX+V6GHB 9kUZGu3NBvRkWxdA6z/8eGvgbmw0dsqB7dbBRDB9Q8/Eq2NYixWV7wy/YQet3ww8EzO2 IWQ4flKlXUpLzI5ROMlNe9Z8Z8B+vBUuC6DbqGouS9MhUVCrJ7BupfeDaSG7ivrmqxEg WmXav1PmgYYN1LOlI3EH3K++/FKaXw9/pFARBlyIgyAwQJNYEME0890mnmezazd/i5gD oqcpsonTSDBelkP39gwnabK7AT8s0NyeQAMbQ+08yPMtIQYi+4Y4PN8dY17K//sGpq6r ONUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tK8XCnkxvMSb95pCFt495uehD56OHpVvg/XE19AT7gRco4/vlSWczP6EGP1L75VkqFQQNLR1YMfsrebABZw X-Received: by 10.202.229.9 with SMTP id c9mr410154oih.42.1466716028303; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:07:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.204.75 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:07:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20160621221347.GC10196@fedora-21-dvm> <20160623105632.GB19241@fedora-21-dvm> From: Justin Newton Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: To: s7r@sky-ip.org, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a11406d2adab5310535f86f86 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Even more proposed BIP extensions to BIP 0070 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:10 -0000 --001a11406d2adab5310535f86f86 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11406d2adab52e0535f86f85 --001a11406d2adab52e0535f86f85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, s7r via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > > Any kind of built-in AML/KYC tools in Bitcoin is bad, and might draw > expectations from _all_ users from authorities. Companies or individuals > who want and/or need AML/KYC can find ways and do it at their side > isolated from the entire network, and the solutions shouldn't come from > upstream. AML/KYC/ differ from country to > country and will be hard to implement in a global consensus network even > if it would be worth it. > > This was precisely our thinking as well. This is actually exactly why BIP 75 was designed the way that it was. Any (voluntary) identity exchange is done at the application level, on an encrypted https (or other) connection between the sender and receiver. Identity data is not passed through or stored on the blockchain, and there is actually no mark left on the blockchain that identity was even exchanged on that transaction. The only people who know identity info was exchanged, or what the identity was is the counterparties in the transaction, and depending on implementation, their service provider. (At a high level, many software based wallet providers wouldn=E2=80=99t have any visibility into identity i= nfo, where many hosted services would, for example) We did this to protect user privacy as well as fungibility. We are allowing the people who want or need to exchange identtity info (either self signed or 3rd party validated) the option to exchange it, in a standards based way, directly between peers, without touching the blockchain or network itself. Is this more clear? --=20 Justin W. Newton Founder/CEO Netki, Inc. justin@netki.com +1.818.261.4248 --001a11406d2adab52e0535f86f85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 1:46 PM, s7r via bitcoin-dev = <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:



Any kind of built-in AML/KYC tools in Bitcoin is bad, and might draw
expectations from _all_ users from authorities. Companies or individuals who want and/or need AML/KYC can find ways and do it at their side
isolated from the entire network, and the solutions shouldn't come from=
upstream. AML/KYC/<insert other regulation here> differ from country = to
country and will be hard to implement in a global consensus network even if it would be worth it.


This was precisely our thinking as wel= l.

This is actually exactly why BIP 75 was designe= d the way that it was.=C2=A0 Any (voluntary) identity exchange is done at t= he application level, on an encrypted https (or other) connection between t= he sender and receiver.=C2=A0 Identity data is not passed through or stored= on the blockchain, and there is actually no mark left on the blockchain th= at identity was even exchanged on that transaction. =C2=A0

The only people who know identity info was exchanged, or what the = identity was is the counterparties in the transaction, and depending on imp= lementation, their service provider. =C2=A0(At a high level, many software = based wallet providers wouldn=E2=80=99t have any visibility into identity i= nfo, where many hosted services would, for example)

We did this to protect user privacy as well as fungibility. =C2=A0
<= div>
We are allowing the people who want or need to exchange = identtity info (either self signed or 3rd party validated) the option to ex= change it, in a standards based way, directly between peers, without touchi= ng the blockchain or network itself. =C2=A0

Is thi= s more clear?
=C2=A0
--

Justin W. Newton
=
Founder/CEO
Netki, Inc.
=

=
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