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From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:46:10 -0800
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	Paul Puey <paul@airbitz.co>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal for P2P Wireless (Bluetooth LE)
	transfer of Payment URI
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BLE has an advertised range of over 100m.=20

http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-tech-info.aspx

In the case of mass surveillance that range could most likely be extended dr=
amatically by the reviewer. I've seen  WiFi ranges of over a mile with a str=
ong (not FCC approved) receiver.

WiFi hotspots don't have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they c=
an't be trusted for location.

e

On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

>> This sounds horrible. You could basically monitor anyone with a wallet in=
 a highly populated area and track them super easily by doing facial recogni=
tion.
>=20
> We're talking about BLE, still? The radio tech that runs in the so called "=
junk bands" because propagation is so poor?
>=20
> My watch loses its connection to my phone if I just put it down and walk a=
round my apartment. I'm all for reasonable paranoia, but Bluetooth isn't goi=
ng to be enabling mass surveillance any time soon. It barely goes through ai=
r, let alone walls.
>=20
> Anyway, whatever. I'm just bouncing around ideas for faster user interface=
s. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the presence o=
f particular wifi hotspots, if you don't mind an initial bit of setup.
>=20
> Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but I think to get this to the s=
tage of being a BIP we'd need at least another wallet to implement it? Then I=
 guess a BIP would be useful regardless of the design issues. The prefix mat=
ching still feels flaky to me but it's hard to know if you could really swip=
e payments out of the air in practice, without actually trying it.
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>BLE has an advertised range of over 10=
0m.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages=
/low-energy-tech-info.aspx">http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-tech-i=
nfo.aspx</a><br><br><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);=
">In the case of mass surveillance that range could most likely be extended d=
ramatically by the reviewer. I've seen &nbsp;WiFi ranges of over a mile with=
 a strong (not FCC approved) receiver.</span></div><div><span style=3D"backg=
round-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div>WiFi hotspots do=
n't have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they can't be trusted f=
or location.</div><div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0=
);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 25=
5, 0);">e</span></div><div><br>On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><=
div>This sounds horrible. You could basically monitor anyone with a wallet i=
n a highly populated area and track them super easily by doing facial recogn=
ition.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We're talking about BLE, s=
till? The radio tech that runs in the so called "junk bands" because propaga=
tion is so poor?</div><div><br></div><div>My watch loses its connection to m=
y phone if I just put it down and walk around my apartment. I'm all for reas=
onable paranoia, but Bluetooth isn't going to be enabling mass surveillance a=
ny time soon. It barely goes through air, let alone walls.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Anyway, whatever. I'm just bouncing around ideas for faster user int=
erfaces. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the pre=
sence of particular wifi hotspots, if you don't mind an initial bit of setup=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but I t=
hink to get this to the stage of being a BIP we'd need at least another wall=
et to implement it? Then I guess a BIP would be useful regardless of the des=
ign issues. The prefix matching still feels flaky to me but it's hard to kno=
w if you could really swipe payments out of the air in practice, without act=
ually trying it.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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