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From: Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 14:50:34 +0100
Message-ID: <CALDj+BYoP9=13b4=jLCBjEwectY-+pp3Y1wMAP4z=ydEoTM5Nw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brooks Boyd <boydb@midnightdesign.ws>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b471fb0ae2e5704f9c10eea
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency
Precedence: list

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Asking random ignorant stranger to care to protect themselves never works.
We need solution that requires strictly zero effort.


Best regards,
Alex Kotenko


2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd <boydb@midnightdesign.ws>:

> >> 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>:
> >> One problem we couldn't figure out here though - how to protect the
> >> notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reach your
> >> wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberate
> >> redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom built
> >> long range NFC antenna? Any ideas?
> >>
> >> I think you'd need multiple factors to protect against that attack. Like
> >> encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code.
> >
> >On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It's paper money, people are
> used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this area.
> Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole thing.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Kotenko
>
> One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general
> public is becoming more aware of the "hacker with a long range
> antenna" sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips
> that can be scanned. There's a few videos I've seen of white hat
> hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by
> someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in
> people's pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking
> sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card
> can't make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking
> wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever "future cash" you
> choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps
> its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money
> doesn't spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily
> remove it and spend it conveniently?
>
> Brooks
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE
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>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace;color:#003300">Asking random ignorant stranger to care to pro=
tect themselves never works. We need solution that requires strictly zero e=
ffort.</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=
=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,0);font-family=
:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace">Best regards,=C2=A0</span><div><div><div =
style=3D"text-align:left">

<font color=3D"#003300" face=3D"&#39;courier new&#39;, monospace" style=3D"=
text-align:-webkit-auto">Alex Kotenko</font></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:boydb@midnightdesign.ws" target=3D"_=
blank">boydb@midnightdesign.ws</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">

<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt;&gt; One problem we couldn&#39;t figure out here though - how to protec=
t the<br>
&gt;&gt; notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reac=
h your<br>
&gt;&gt; wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberat=
e<br>
&gt;&gt; redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom =
built<br>
&gt;&gt; long range NFC antenna? Any ideas?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I think you&#39;d need multiple factors to protect against that at=
tack. Like<br>
&gt;&gt; encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"">&gt;On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:alexykot@gmail.com">alexykot@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It&#39;s paper money, people=
 are used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this =
area. Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole=
 thing.<br>


&gt;<br>
&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt; Alex Kotenko<br>
<br>
</div>One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general<=
br>
public is becoming more aware of the &quot;hacker with a long range<br>
antenna&quot; sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips<br>
that can be scanned. There&#39;s a few videos I&#39;ve seen of white hat<br=
>
hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by<br>
someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in<br>
people&#39;s pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking<br>
sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card<br>
can&#39;t make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking<br>
wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever &quot;future cash&quot; =
you<br>
choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps<br>
its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money<br>
doesn&#39;t spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily<br>
remove it and spend it conveniently?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Brooks<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
&quot;Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE=
<br>
Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.<br>
Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform availa=
ble<br>
Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free.&quot;<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net=
/sfu/SauceLabs</a><br>
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Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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