MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com>
References: <CAPg+sBgs-ouEMu=LOVCmOyCGwfM1Ygxooz0shyvAuHDGGZYfJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPg+sBgugLSVEwDLXhgey86_rM2fTjGWXFuXsiZioJKCZiHiNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADm_WcbnQQGZoQ92twfUvbzqGwu__xLn+BYOkHPZY_YT1pFrbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPWm=eW8RgrG1CMEAMN4GeiMjZecFvNtZB_Y4rZNeofWSD0=Wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADm_WcYCUHs9Qe_T6WJOCUSK6stXYD8v6z5JcGHfRMURoOSFTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABm2gDq3JyZx0QCRDbcNSLSOBKdpi4h_7VN1XL8N42U38+eBAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:28:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CABsx9T1MTc-GmuQyFN1vaFK=CDWV_L214Pi9nR6jLMouQQD0fw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com>
To: Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks
Precedence: list

--001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On 7/23/2015 5:17 AM, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > they will simply advance the front and start another battle, because
> > their true hidden faction is the "not ever side". Please, Jeff, Gavin,
> > Mike, show me that I'm wrong on this point. Please, answer my question
> > this time. If "not now", then when?
>
> Bitcoin has all the hash power.  The merkle root has effectively
> infinite capacity.  We should be asking HOW to scale the supporting
> information propagation system appropriately, not WHEN to limit the
> capacity of the primary time-stamping machine.
>
> We haven't tried yet.  I can't answer for the people you asked, but
> personally I haven't thought much about when we should declare failure.


Yes! Lets plan for success!

I'd really like to move from "IMPOSSIBLE because...  (electrum hasn't been
optimized
(by the way: you should run on SSDs, LevelDB isn't designed for spinning
disks),
what if the network is attacked?  (attacked HOW???), current p2p network is
using
the simplest, stupidest possible block propagation algorithm...)"

... to "lets work together and work through the problems and scale it up."

I'm frankly tired of all the negativity here; so tired of it I've decided
to mostly ignore
all the debate for a while, not respond to misinformation I see being sprea=
d
(like "miners have some incentive to create slow-to-propagate blocks"),
work with people like Tom and Mike who have a 'lets get it done' attitude,
and
focus on what it will take to scale up.

--=20
--
Gavin Andresen

--001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 7/23/2015 5:17 AM, Jorge Tim=C3=
=B3n via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br></span><span class=3D"">&gt; they will simpl=
y advance the front and start another battle, because<br>
&gt; their true hidden faction is the &quot;not ever side&quot;. Please, Je=
ff, Gavin,<br>
&gt; Mike, show me that I&#39;m wrong on this point. Please, answer my ques=
tion<br>
&gt; this time. If &quot;not now&quot;, then when?<br>
<br>
</span>Bitcoin has all the hash power.=C2=A0 The merkle root has effectivel=
y<br>
infinite capacity.=C2=A0 We should be asking HOW to scale the supporting<br=
>
information propagation system appropriately, not WHEN to limit the<br>
capacity of the primary time-stamping machine.<br>
<br>
We haven&#39;t tried yet.=C2=A0 I can&#39;t answer for the people you asked=
, but<br>
personally I haven&#39;t thought much about when we should declare failure.=
</blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div>Yes! Lets plan for success!</div><=
div><br></div><div>I&#39;d really like to move from &quot;IMPOSSIBLE becaus=
e... =C2=A0(electrum hasn&#39;t been optimized</div><div>(by the way: you s=
hould run on SSDs, LevelDB isn&#39;t designed for spinning disks),</div><di=
v>what if the network is attacked? =C2=A0(attacked HOW???), current p2p net=
work is using</div><div>the simplest, stupidest possible block propagation =
algorithm...)&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>... to &quot;lets work togethe=
r and work through the problems and scale it up.&quot;</div><div><br></div>=
<div>I&#39;m frankly tired of all the negativity here; so tired of it I&#39=
;ve decided to mostly ignore</div><div>all the debate for a while, not resp=
ond to misinformation I see being spread</div><div>(like &quot;miners have =
some incentive to create slow-to-propagate blocks&quot;),</div><div>work wi=
th people like Tom and Mike who have a &#39;lets get it done&#39; attitude,=
 and</div><div>focus on what it will take to scale up.</div><div><br></div>=
-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature">--<br>Gavin Andresen<br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div>
</div></div>

--001a113492b8913735051b8d61a2--