Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YM026-0007bc-NE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.161 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.161; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148161.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail148161.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.161]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1YM025-0008B0-0X for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1CK6Xah098532; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:33 GMT Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com [75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1CK6TAp005009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:32 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:06:29 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Alan Reiner Message-ID: <20150212200629.GB20964@savin.petertodd.org> References: <356E7F6E-300A-4127-9885-2183FB1DE447@gmail.com> <54DCECE4.3020802@riseup.net> <54DCFBB5.3080202@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <54DCFBB5.3080202@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: a3c87848-b2f2-11e4-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aAdMdwAUHlAWAgsB AmMbWVReUFt7WmE7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr VklWR1pVCwQmRR1y fRh6I1lydwBGeHc+ ZEZnXHEVDUcpfUF1 RkZJR29QZ3phaTUb TRJbfgVJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDBDMk QxkJEHAlDAgLSih7 MURgcwZaRFwabi0A X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1YM025-0008B0-0X Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 -0000 --QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 08:15:01PM +0100, Alan Reiner wrote: > The Bitcoin network achieves something that we didnt' think was possible > 10 years ago: a totally trustless, decentralized ledger. The cost? It > takes time for the decentralized network to reach consensus that > transactions "happened". That is quite literally the trade-off that we > make: you can centralize things by putting a bank in the middle and > getting instant confirmation, or you decentralize and let the network > reach consensus over time without the central authority. If you want > instant confirmations, you're going to need to add centralization > because Bitcoin never offered it. I support efforts to dispel any such > myths as soon as possible and encourage building robust solutions > (payment channels, insured zero-conf services, etc.). Speaking of, a relatively simple thing that would help dispel these notions would be if some wallets supported replace-by-fee-using fee-bumping and an "attempt undo" button. Armory is an (unfortunately!) special case because it uses a full node and has good privacy guarantees, but most wallets could implement this by just sending the doublespend transactions to any node advertising either the replace-by-fee or GETUTXO's service bits. 1) https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/the_doghouse_cr.html --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00000000000000000a1fb2fd17f5d8735a8a0e7aae841c95a12e82b934c4ac92 --QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJU3QfAXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwYTE2YmNjNzY2MzYxNDE0NTcxYTVmOTYxNjk4YWNjNDZj MjdiZDc5YzI2YWMxNWMvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfspkggAgw1lX1Oy6yx67rW20by4lKY/ WC2h+kJpK229iFRkRUkIR9FWA+fVC+OCimlzdeoN1CECmTRy61w+CCp/9DUFf675 +dXlNMe6HexxIxaL1Fqkp2KmGa+LjukgwwEEpYGNaSqHr+UnqD3vM+3NlJGLCG2L qP1shCJesIH551+7mbdyi+NQiZ2OyMxOlmbLUARJSTXMHE7HJC2/F4Lww5hZ35cw XndvzEhfL99mQqWMT/6nKBK2vjeRgoOQuzFRdOvSaRMcXhMBEJ42yXa1pugf0bvo IuhxsxHTJdyN1eGtQpISYtnQOdFMZKOHbl/tgBNwkGU1Sr7M0Ix2GbpBA9LH5A== =fNzv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt--