Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F60D1892 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 01:26:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com (mail-wi0-f180.google.com [209.85.212.180]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B74018D for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2015 01:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wiclk2 with SMTP id lk2so104681407wic.0 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Piu93CFx8LdN7itLNB4WPbMbqXKw8AbOIhTD9kpWuGQ=; b=TdIubndM7wpB+kJeDkkSoRbPyAOB/DH3OGWmqE5HWhGPJG/4b+cK12J+xaxCgSu1yZ DPPaW6fjwJ61/idHEHfCQfgJcZmmRjktol+iE5uxjY4v0O7j9XFSAMJGOzR0CDzC5lGx cY5tz4jfjQrb8deXzogQip1CJju8lJuVix+tllZSuIdBhf6ER1PHeZ6M8NumirkDlWlG MoC4ItN7KPOnGB9ZUuBAawybCTHIiu8JU1YfVtW2/XV3456NLBAQ7Hi55NB7N+HRMeMd qF4mwOvHWl8CF2ICSo0wfnPEMJoeSHi4ueYD+cc07ZK3+DutGRTq2rmdFQFOaPxMd7tM 7QLQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.188.169 with SMTP id gb9mr6225421wic.72.1442712408941; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: dscotese@gmail.com Received: by 10.27.211.132 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:26:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55FDD951.9010709@gmail.com> References: <55F9E47D.50507@mattcorallo.com> <55FC6EBF.9090504@mattcorallo.com> <20150919014710.GD22598@muck> <20150919060639.A775A404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD0737.1080008@voskuil.org> <20150919072714.D3349404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD1122.5030107@voskuil.org> <20150919075758.820CC404B9@smtp.hushmail.com> <55FD225B.1050402@voskuil.org> <55FDD951.9010709@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:26:48 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wm1-PaP7txPZhn0WiPPclv-4hQA Message-ID: From: Dave Scotese To: "P. H. Madore" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26bb8a5e9a6052023a8b5 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Bitcoin conference micro-report X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 01:26:51 -0000 --001a11c26bb8a5e9a6052023a8b5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 phm got most of this, but... On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:53 PM, phm via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > > * Most governments can easily spend enough money to do a 51% attack, > > especially if they can compel chip fabs to cooperate for free. > > This attack works regardless of how decentralised Bitcoin is. > > > > * Any government can end Bitcoin usage in its territory by jailing > > anyone who advertises acceptance/trading of bitcoins, or prices in > > BTC. Because merchants /must/ advertise in order to alert > > customers that trades in BTC are possible, this is an attack which > > is unsolvable. If ordinary people can find such merchants so can > > government agents. > > > Pot is used as money, and they do jail people for it, but it doesn't have the effect to which you refer. It has the opposite effect, partially because it enriches suppliers. The 51% attack is a good point, but they would be taking a huge risk. Ideas don't die, just people. For example, they got Ross Ulbricht, not DPR. Government is the group of people that does things that are not acceptable if anyone else does them, and that is because people cheer for them when they do those things, rather than pointing out that they are not acceptable. The movie "The Deep Web" shows how bitcoin helps to turn this misfortune around. --001a11c26bb8a5e9a6052023a8b5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
phm got most of this, but...

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:53 PM, phm via bi= tcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&g= t; wrote:
Mike He= arn via bitcoin-dev wrote:

>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Most governments can easily spend enough money to= do a 51% attack,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0especially if they can compel chip= fabs to cooperate for free.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This attack works regardless of how decentralised B= itcoin is.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0* Any government can end Bitcoin usage in its terri= tory by jailing
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0anyone who advertises acceptance/t= rading of bitcoins, or prices in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BTC. Because merchants /must/ advertise in o= rder to alert
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0customers that trades in BTC are p= ossible, this is an attack which
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is unsolvable. If ordinary people can find such mer= chants so can
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0government agents.
>
=
Pot is used as money, and they do jail people for it, but it doesn'= ;t have the effect to which you refer. It has the opposite effect, partiall= y because it enriches suppliers.

The 51% attack is a good= point, but they would be taking a huge risk.=C2=A0 Ideas don't die, ju= st people.=C2=A0 For example, they got Ross Ulbricht, not DPR.

Government is the group of people that does things that are not accep= table if anyone else does them, and that is because people cheer for them w= hen they do those things, rather than pointing out that they are not accept= able.=C2=A0 The movie "The Deep Web" shows how bitcoin helps to t= urn this misfortune around.

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