Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Qp5af-0007wS-ST for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:36:29 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.212.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.47; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-vw0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-vw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.212.47]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Qp5ae-0001AJ-TE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:36:29 +0000 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2so2580820vws.34 for ; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.76.8 with SMTP id g8mr896185vdw.178.1312493783418; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.158.233 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201108042042.55214.andyparkins@gmail.com> References: <201108041423.14176.andyparkins@gmail.com> <201108041922.16956.andyparkins@gmail.com> <1312483196.3109.38.camel@Desktop666> <201108042042.55214.andyparkins@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:36:23 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YVkx5MIqx8UEyMiamv98Z4TIPQc Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Andy Parkins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 1.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list X-Headers-End: 1Qp5ae-0001AJ-TE Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Double spend detection to speed up transaction trust X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:36:30 -0000 > If it's still an experiment why is there such huge objection to pretty much > every change anyone proposes? I don't think there are huge objections to every change. You've only really argued about this with Matt ;) The vending machine/detecting double spends issue was discussed by Satoshi in July 2010: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423.msg3819#msg3819 He mentioned payment processors that could "alert the transaction is bad". Gregorys idea looks sound to me. It'd be useful, though, to have a NAK message for transactions anyway (not propagated). It's possible to get yourself into a situation today where you connect to nodes that refuse to relay your transaction for some reason (perhaps your peers are using old fee rules, or you are) but you think the transaction was relayed. The user is left wondering why the spend didn't confirm. If nodes sent a message saying "I refuse to process this tx because " it'd make debugging and testing easier as well.