From: Dick.Gray@bull.com
>Brian writes, in response to my characterizing capital punishment
>as initiation of force inconsistent with the non-aggression
>principle:
>> The force was initiated by the murderer, so it is not
>>inconsistent.
>Force was initiated by the murderer, but since the death penalty
>is not an immediate and direct response to the murderer's force,
>it does not qualify as defensive counterforce. Any harm inflicted
>after the fact is a *separate* application of force, and hence an
>initiation. Or is there some flaw in my reasoning here?
"have some fire Strawman"
>> As citizens of a government we are subject to legal definitions.
>I disagree. Most of us haven't chosen to be "citizens" in the
>first place, we are simply claimed as such by the nearest
>gangsters calling themselves "government". "Subject to legal
>definitions" is somewhat ambiguous, but if you mean we're somehow
>("morally" or otherwise) bound to define things the way the
>powers-that-be tell us to, I'd like to know why.
You don't have to agree on the definition, but if you violate it, you will be punished. In a world where private agreements handle these matters you can be assured my contract will call for the death of anyone who murders me.
>In response to my objection that there's no substantive difference
>between punishment and revenge:
>> Revenge: to inflict harm in return for an injury etc.
>> Punishment: To undergo pain, loss etc as for a crime.
>> (source: Websters New World dictionary.)
>OK, I ask again: wherein is the difference? Those definitions look
>to me like alternative ways of saying the same thing.
Punishment requires being convicted of a crime.
> No compensation or restitution is adequate or possible. Only
> justice in the form of equivalent punishment.
>Here you're simply assuming that justice equals punishment, or at
>least implying, without support, that punishment is just. But
>isn't justice in essence simply fairness? You need to _argue_ for
>the fairness of punishment, not just assert it in passing, and, as
>a first step, you should distinguish it from mere revenge, which
>you have so far failed to do.
Semantic's. The only fair punishment for the illegal malicious taking of another persons life is to forfeit yours.
If an individual does it it is revenge.
If you are tried lawfully, fairly, and convicted. It will be just, fair, punishment.
Brian
Member,Extropy Institute
www.extropy.org