Harvey Newstrom wrote:
>>Which one needs to be measured and compared to the other to determine if
it
is "correct"? The second one.
Which one doesn't have to worry about developing copy-related flaws later?
The first one.<<
Ah. But the problem is, neither one knows which one is the copy and which
one is the original. They're identical. Unless the copying process was
flawed neither will have to worry about developing copy-related flaws. They
are exact copies. But the question still remains. Which is the first and
which is the second?
They really are the exact same people though. Down to the atom they're the
same. They're brains function the exact same way. Which one grew up in
Florida? Well, neither really since those atoms have long been replaced. The
interaction of atoms are the same for both people. Two bodies with the same
mind. The minds don't interact but that doesn't mean they're not the same.
They are the same. They are the same minds. They are the same "me".
Clint O'Dell
clint@freethoughtradio.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
[mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]On Behalf Of Harvey Newstrom
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:57 AM
To: extropians@extropy.org
Subject: RE: Sincere Questions on Identity
Clint O'Dell wrote,
> As a joke, while the two beings with identical memories,
> etc. are sleeping the doctors decide to put you both in a human shuffling
> machine where when each person came out nobody knew who was who.
>
> Now both beings wake up. Which one is you?
The question is imprecise. "You" is a pronoun that could refer to anybody.
Every reader of this message on this list is thinking about a different
person when they read that pronoun. Which of them is the real "you" that
was specified? There is no real answer because the question is imprecise.
Every reader will have a different frame of reference.
Here are some more precise questions:
Which has my stunningly good looks? Both.
Which has my bizarre sense of humor? Both.
Which has my genetic code? Both.
Which has my memories of this discussion? Both.
Which grew up in Florida? The first one.
Which is a glorified evolved uber-monkey? The first one.
Which is a scientific marvel of modern technology? The second one.
Which was appointed to the ExI Board of Directors? The first one.
Which might try to get me thrown off the Board? The second one.
Which one is not doubted to be me by anybody? The first one.
Which one needs to be measured and compared to the other to determine if it
is "correct"? The second one.
Which one doesn't have to worry about developing copy-related flaws later?
The first one.
Which one might develop copy-related flaws later? The second one.
Here are some non-objective questions with no objective answer:
Which one is "me"?
Which one is more "me" than the other?
What "rights" does each one have?
What "property" does each on retain?
Which one should go to the next Board meeting?
Which one uses my toothbrush and which one buys another one?
Which one gets to hold the TV remote?
Which one will my spouse choose to sleep with?
Which one will live out the future I "should" have lived?
I see no difficulty with the copying process itself. All of the
difficulties seem to derive from new questions about what should we call
them, how should we treat them the same, how should we treat them
differently. These are decision choices of a personal nature, and not
objective scientific facts which can be measured and answered precisely.
-- Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <www.HarveyNewstrom.com> Principal Security Consultant, Newstaff Inc. <www.Newstaff.com> Board of Directors, Extropy Institute <www.Extropy.org> Cofounder, Pro-Act <www.ProgressAction.org>
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