> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
[mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]
> On Behalf Of Mike Lorrey
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:37 AM
> To: extropians@extropy.org
> Subject: Re:
>
> dudescholar@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Once again, you are talking out your ear. Almost all were swept up
on
> > > immigration violations. The rest were swept up because they had
> > personal
> > > interaction with the known hijackers or with other al Qaeda
> > operatives.
> >
> > > In a war of insurgency, as this one is, there are no front lines
to
> > > 'capture' prisoners on. This ain't no Stalag 13, no "Hogan's
Heros",
> > > lady. Wake up and smell the patchouli. The enemy has infiltrated
our
> > > homeland, they walk among us, dress like us, and try to act like
good
> > > little westernized muslims.
> >
> > So, someone under CIA surveillance comes up to you in an airport and
> > asks the time. The operative, because of your now known contact
with a
> > "suspected" terrorist notes, "Round him up for questioning!" and
when
> > you say you don't know anything it's OK to pull out all the stops to
get
> > you to confess to your "knowledge"? I'm not sure I like the idea of
> > sacrificing individuals on the alter of paranoia.
>
> Well, I've never associated with any known terrorists. If I were, I'd
> likely take it as such a slight on my personal honor to be associated
> with such an individual as to seek to clear up any questions about the
> association.
History seems to define who is and is not a terrorist. Nelson Mandela,
is, or was he ever, a terrorist? If the Al Quada network achieves
victory however defined, will the WTC events be seen as a terrorist act
or merely the opening salvo in the victory of an oppressed people?
I don't know if I've had any interaction with "enemies of the state"
ever. I hate to think that my views my be seen as incompatible with the
government's and that consequently my freedoms might be curtail as a
consequence.
Say I was against propping up the Shaw of Iran? Does that make me a bad
citizen? What above the US's refusal to entertain Iran's attempts to
open up relations, what if I see that as a bad move on the US's part.
Does that make me a bad citizen? What if I think that we should tell
the Saudis to take a hike(or at least put a plan in place to marginalize
them), does that make me a bad citizen? What if I faxed all kinds of
material voicing my disapproval of many aspects of the PATRIOT ACT to my
Senators and congressperson (and I did), does that make me a bad
citizen? Am I now on someone's list as being un-American?
> That is, of course, unless I thought the 'terrorists' were in fact
> freedom fighters and that my government was a fascist tyranny. In
which
> case, I'd fully expect that government to treat me badly and take
> measures in such a frame of mind. If apprehended, I'd likely make
claims
> about my civil rights being violated, being fully aware that as far as
> that society was concerned, such protestations are purely for
propaganda
> purposes. Relative to that society, I would completely understand that
I
> was the enemy, and proper strategy for me would be to seek to further
> undermine it by trying to push that government into behaving (or being
> perceived as behaving) in a far more extremist manner than it actually
> is or is preceived to be. More extremism on my enemy's part will
recruit
> more people to my cause, and their strategies should also be to
increase
> the extremism of our opponents until enough of the population is
pissed
> off by that government that it rises up and overthrows it.
In other words, history is written by the victors and they define
"terrorists" as the losers. If the truth be told, terrorists .... er, I
mean patriots, founded America.
> Do you see how people like Samantha, et al, by harping on how 'bad'
our
> government and society are, contribute to the cause of the enemy, in
> this light?
I don't see the US government as beyond reproach and I don't see those
who disagree with any of its acts as enemies of the state. I like to
think of myself as a part owner of the government, not one of the
"owned."
> I am sure Samantha says what she does entirely from the best of
motives.
> I just don't think she thinks this through entirely.
That's a double edged sword.
Steve
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