dwayne wrote:
> "Michael S. Lorrey" wrote:
We were having a discusion about knee-jerk responses to use of words taken out of context.
My point has been that there are so many different historical contexts that for a person to
jump to such conclusions is rude and insulting in and of itself. We could have just let it
lie at that, but you seem to prefer to continue the rudeness.
> > Its also quite convenient for you to ignore my italian ancestry.
Only in a general sense. Most bigoted types who are northern european descendants do
> >
>
> > Now who is knee jerking? The context that I used the word, with no knowledge of the
> > particular political correctness of the word in a region on the opposite side of the
> > planet from me, was merely as a means of abbreviating.
>
> Sure. But once you have been told it has racist connotations, why bring
> it up again? Why not just let it lie?
>
> What?
> Sorry, last time I checked, Italians were caucasian.
> > Even today in many parts of the US, when people
Which is, as I said, total knee jerking and being totally ignorant of other historical
contexts.
> > find out you are italian and from the east coast, they automatically think you are in
> > the mafia. When my grandfather married an italian girl in the 1930's, his family
> > would not talk to him for years, prejudice was so widespread back then. To most
> > WASPs, being white means being of NORTHERN european descent, and specifically of
> > English descent. Anyone who is not ignorant of history knows what the English did to
> > the Scots after Culloden. Apparently you are.
>
> Oh get a grip, will you? Who is talking about WASPS? As I said to you,
> if you were to use such a word to a group of aborigines over here, they
> will be offended. The fact that you are *italian* will not calm them
> down much at all. All they will see is yet another offensive white dude
> having a go at them. Shit, that's all I see reading this email.
> And I'll wager I have a FAR greater understanding of history than you
> do.
>From what I've seen so far, not bloody likely.
> > I was talking with some freinds the other day about this, and we were mocking the
On the contrary, my scottish ancestors were locked up and carted off to the Hebrides and to
Nova Scotia, and their land was seized so that English lords could make more profits off of
the breeding of sheep. All commoner women were subject to the English policy of
Primogeniture, which meant that the king, the local lord, or his agent had the right to
have intercourse with any newly married woman before the husband could consummate the
marriage. This was the enactment of old Longshanks' complaint that "The problem with
Scotland is that its full of Scots."
I think this is an ample example of how little you understand history.
> > demands of a few years ago for apologies to the african americans. At the same time
> > their ancestors were getting enslaved by the British, my Scottish ancestors were
> > getting exterminated by the British. Why the hell should I, or my representatives,
> > have to apologize to them?
>
> This is SUCH complete bullshit. The Scots weren't locked up in chains
> and carted off to the other side of the planet. To even attempt to
> compare what happened to the scots to what happened to negroes is so
> obviously fatuous as to render me, um, speechless.
> > None of my ancestors even came to the US until after the
I could counter by saying that what does my use of the term, even though I've never been
anywhere near Austrialia or known an Aborigine, have anything to do with how pissed the
Aborigines may be at the way Aussies have treated them?
> > civil war. One of my buddies noted that his danish ancestors were held under martial
> > law by the Swedes way back when, so I summarily apologized to him for the actions of
> > my Swedish ancestors on his Danish ancestors.
>
> Can I just quickly interject into the midst of this foam and ask you:
> what the hell has this to do with you not calling aborigines "abos"?
> > Now I suppose if you REALLY stretch it, I would have to apologize for my Roman Empire
Since this isn't the first time you've descended to personal flames, insults, and general
bad language, you're already a bit far into
> > ancestors and what they did to the Carthaginians, the Egyptians, the Jews, the
> > French, and the British. Let me say right here: I am truly sorry people I never met
> > or gained an ounce of benefit from opressed people you never met or gained an ounce
> > of benefit from. Happy now?
>
> Without getting too far into personal flames, you are a fucking twit.
> Where did I say you should feel responsible for ANYTHING other than your
> own actions? Why did this come into it? I mentioned that the word "abo"
> is considered rude here. You come back, as usual, with something
> totally unrelated to what I wrote. Are you incapable of addressing the
> issues people raise with you, too stupid to understand the difference,
> or too devious to care?
I addressed the topic, and you still felt like coming back with a rude threat as to how some Queensland natives would treat me. The only one being rude here is you.
> Do you have any idea how many people killfile you, Michael? Is it a
> lot? You are the only person on this list I have considered doing it to,
> and one of the rare people on the net to bring me to such a conclusion.
> Congratulations.
The only people who may killfile me are people I probably wouldn't care to converse with much anyways, or are people who are just to busy to deal with the obnoxious individuals I take it upon myself to deal with.
> I haven't done so as yet because you *appear* to have a brain, but this
> complete inability to stick to the point is too annoying for words.
At this point, I'm wondering what YOUR point is. You seem to have lost it.
Mike Lorrey