From: Stefan Pernar (stefan.pernar@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Apr 28 2008 - 06:33:42 MDT
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Tim Freeman <tim@fungible.com> wrote:
> --- Stefan Pernar <stefan.pernar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You can find my paper on friendliness called 'Practical Benevolence -
> > a Rational Philosophy of Morality' at:
> >
> http://rationalmorality.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/practical-benevolence-2007-12-06_iostemp.pdf
>
> From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@yahoo.com>
> >In section 1.7 you state that existence is preferable to non-existence,
> >and that existence is defined as the ability to be perceived. From
> >this you conclude that it is the agent's interest to ensure continuous
> >co-existence.
> >
> >This is the crux of your argument. I believe it is flawed. Evolution
> >does not define existence as the ability to be perceived. It only
> >matters that your genes are propagated.
>
> So far, so good. If you've quoted Pernar correctly, you seem to have
> a valid argument against his point of view.
>
Yes he has and point well taken. Please see earlier post.
>Humans have a goal of being perceived by other humans. This is called
> >"ego". Tribes whose members desire attention have a competitive
> >advantage because ego leads to sharing of information, a common
> >language, reciprocal attention and friendship, and ability to organize
> >into companies and armies.
>
> This is less good. You're advocating group selectionism here.
> Apparently group selectionism is a rare event and individual selection
> is much more common:
>
> http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/group-selection.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_selection
>
The group selection debate is far from over - particularly on a non-genetic
level as I have written about earlier: http://www.jame5.com/?p=25
Also see:
Joe Heinrich: http://www.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/home.html#papers
David Sloan Willson:
http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/publications.html
Particularily: Wilson, D. S. and E.O. Wilson (2007). Rethinking the
theoretical foundation of sociobiology. Quarterly Review of Biology, in
press<http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/resources/publications_resources/Rethinking%20sociobiology.pdf>
My definition for existing is admittedly improvable.
Many thanks,
Stefan
-- Stefan Pernar 3-E-101 Silver Maple Garden #6 Cai Hong Road, Da Shan Zi Chao Yang District 100015 Beijing P.R. CHINA Mobil: +86 1391 009 1931 Skype: Stefan.Pernar
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