From extropians-request@extropy.org Tue Oct 25 15:04:44 1994 Return-Path: extropians-request@extropy.org Received: from usc.edu (usc.edu [128.125.253.136]) by chaph.usc.edu (8.6.8.1/8.6.4) with SMTP id PAA24830 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:04:25 -0700 Received: from news.panix.com by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA24173; Tue, 25 Oct 94 15:02:29 PDT Received: (from exi@localhost) by news.panix.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA09417; Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:02:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:02:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199410252202.SAA09417@news.panix.com> To: Extropians@extropy.org From: Extropians@extropy.org Subject: Extropians Digest #94-10-490 - #94-10-498 X-Extropian-Date: October 25, 374 P.N.O. [18:01:53 UTC] Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org X-Mailer: MailWeir 1.0 Status: RO Extropians Digest Tue, 25 Oct 94 Volume 94 : Issue 297 Today's Topics: BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology [4 msgs] Generation X [1 msgs] Libertarians grabbing a state [1 msgs] QUES: Generation X references [1 msgs] REproduction [2 msgs] Administrivia: Note: I have increased the frequency of the digests to four times a day. The digests used to be processed at 5am and 5pm, but this was too infrequent for the current bandwidth. Now digests are sent every six hours: Midnight, 6am, 12pm, and 6pm. If you experience delays in getting digests, try setting your digest size smaller such as 20k. You can do this by addressing a message to extropians@extropy.org with the body of the message as ::digest size 20 -Ray Approximate Size: 28109 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tanya@alcor.org Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 17:29:12 Subject: [#94-10-490] REproduction I recently saw a program on the learning channel (sorry, due to faulty neural net, no reference available) that contained a segment regarding artificial wombs. Japanese scientists were growing a goat fetus in a transparent container, and it was nearing full-term when the segment was taped. Some interesting shots of the young goat, artificial womb, and dialysis equipment were shown in this all too brief segment of the show. The technology *is* being developed, and I, too, am looking forward to wide-spread implementation of such devices in the medical community. Childbirth strikes me as rather barbaric. I'd also like to respond briefly to John Bozeman's question: 'Isn't there a bit of conflict between this notion of "designer kids" and the desire for an "independent being"?' I don't believe that there is a conflict here. Personally, I'd like to provide any children I may have with the best possible genetic blueprints that I can, whether the chomosomal makeup comes from a single partner and myself, or as Minsky suggests, many different people. Genes are only one part of human development, and I've seen figures claiming the impact of genetics is 40-80% responsibile for personality development, with the remainder being assigned to environmental influences. No matter the exact percent, genes seem to be important, and it helps to have good ones. ;-) By choosing genetic components compatible with what I consider to be healthy development (Down With Sickle-Cell Anemia!), I'd be doing the same thing for my child that providing a stimulating environment for growth would do. My values dictate that I give any child I'm responsible for bringing into the world the best genetic foundation possible, whether this foundation comes from single partner or many. The growth environment would be established with identical goals. I would try to live by demonstrating the qualities that I respect in myself (and others, given that there are quite a few things about my personality that I'm trying to change). One of the characteristics that I respect most is independent thought. It seems very unlikely to me, that any child growing up in an enviroment where independence was cherished wouldn't first mimic and then develop independence. (This is my opinion, and I welcome the opinions of others regarding personality development as influenced by genetics and enviornments.) --Tanya ------------------------------ From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 3:39:26 GMT Subject: [#94-10-491] REproduction Just a thought about artificial wombs--as I understand it, quite a bit of a baby's sensory equipment is in place before birth.....an artificial womb for humans might need at least a sound system and the ability to change it's orientation fairly often. Nancy Lebovitz ------------------------------ From: sullivan@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Gregory Sullivan) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 00:32:16 EDT Subject: [#94-10-492] Libertarians grabbing a state Craig Presson says: >* There was a "standing invite" to Libertarians to move to Ft. Collins, CO > a while back. As far as I know it had no big effect. Some other list members also mentioned Ft. Collins. Do any list members know what fraction of the Ft. Collins population are self-identified libertarians or what government offices are held be libertarians in that area? gfs ------------------------------ From: mackler@iac.net (Adam Mackler) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:23:39 -0400 Subject: [#94-10-493] QUES: Generation X references I can't get this through to Michelle by private email, so I hope she's reading this list. >Does anyone on the extropian mailing list have a reference to material >relating to information on the term 'generation x', as it appears in >the media, or is popularly conceived to be? >I have only a few books by Douglas Coupland so far. > >Cultural studies, media references, or popular opinion would be most >greatly appreciated! > >Michelle. > I'm a grad student at the Annenberg School for Communication in Philadelphia, and a friend of mine who got his masters here last year wrote his thesis on the generation x concept and its use by marketers. I think--actually I haven't read it, I'm going on my memory of what he told me about it as he was writing it. It's definitely all about gen-x. I think you may be able to get it via University Microfilm (or Microform--I don't remember their exact name). You may also be able to get it via interlibrary loan--we're part of the University of Pennsylvania library system. His name is Vincenzo James Petreti. He goes by James, so I don't know what name is on the thesis. By the way, I'm at home right now, going on memory. I work at the library at school where we keep the theses, so if you're interested I can look at it the next time I'm there and give you information with certainty. If you can't get a hold of it through normal channels I may be able to photocopy it and mail it to you. Where are you? Not in the US I'm guessing from your domain--my nameserver can't even find your machine's address. Anyway, that's the deal; let me know if I can help further. Adam ------------------------------ From: "Kobielus, James" Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 07:54:00 PDT Subject: [#94-10-494] Generation X Let's banish this Generation X nonsense to the boneyard of cultural cliches. FYI, Billy Idol's punk band in the 70s was called Generation X, long preceding Douglas Coupland. It's a concept--a generation coming of age at the apocalypse--with some pedigree. In 1978, Richard Hell titled his only album "Blank Generation." In 1969, Jefferson Airplane's "Volunteers" song stated that "this generation's got no destination to hold." In 1967, the Who said their generation wanted to die before they got old (and some did). Ernest Hemingway's group of friends in the 1920s fancied themselves the "Lost Generation." A lot of this Generation X nonsense, like the other stuff just cited, is just the latest group of twenty-somethings crying out to be taken seriously by thirty- and forty-somethings. It's a script that will continue to play itself over and over, generation after generation. We all seem to think we came of age in some kind of cultural crossroads and are deserving of special consideration. To catch people's attention, many of us have specialized in finding new ways to say the same old things. Set it to a churning rhythm section and that's entertainment. Particular individuals and movements in each generation are deserving of special consideration, but most people are just same old song next verse. Jim Kobielus ------------------------------ From: Vigdor Schreibman - FINS Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [#94-10-495] BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology ------------------------------------------------------------------- FINS SPECIAL REPORTS October 25, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------- BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology Report Now Available In Fins Information Age Library Washington, DC, Oct. 25, 1994--The Fins Information Age Library at the inforM system of the University of Maryland, announced today that the library now has available for public browing, a two-part report on "Desirable Information Technology." The report is located in the directory: Periodicals_and_Newspapers/Fins-PaN-11,12. Vigdor Schreibman, editor and publisher of FINS, said the report contains a blueprint for combating the threat to the survival of the biosphere through a proposed "Global Research and Education Network (GREN)." The report was issued in conjunction with a recent news column, "A Call To Human Intelligence" [Fins-NC2-22} that described the threat to humanity caused by overpopulation and global warming. Mike W. Perry of the Discovery Institute (an affiliate of TCI cable television monopolists) blasted the report in a message delivered earlier today over the Telecomreg discussion list of the Internet. Perry called the report of the threat to the survival of the biosphere, the work of "coercive utopians." However, Schreibman shot back, that the criticism was motivated by the purely opportunistic mentality of corporate interests, labeling the charge of coerciveness as an "unconscionable lie." Schreibman invited interested citizens to examine the ominous facts themselves, supported by a significant sector of the scientific community, contained in the report posted in the Fins Gopher. Included in the report is a description of "desirable information technology," illustrations of a Mission Model to sustain and enhance human development, and methodologies to facilitate broad scale public participation in the planning process. Access to and use of the report is a free service of FINS. ----------------------Forward Message------------------------------ >From gopherjewels@einet.net Fri Sep 16 11:15:39 1994 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 10:11:41 CDT Sender: gopherjewels@einet.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fins Information Age X-Comment: broadcast outstanding gopher jewels specimens Status: RO Gopher users should be informed about Fins Information Age Library. Carefully selected documents in a subject tree format are available. These are relevant to the emerging philosophy of the Information Age, linking the normative, strategic, and operational levels. Public policy papers, including bills introduced in Congress are organized around the four domains of Federal legislation: (1) public information; (2) information resources management; (3) information infrastructure; and (4) telecommunications infrastructure. Also included are news columns and special reports connecting the paramount issues of the day to the larger purposes and values that govern the information and communications systems; congressional directories; periodical and newspaper articles; and other relevant documents. To go there: Home Gopher server: inform.umd.edu 4. Educational Resources 3. Academic Resources By Topic 2. Computers and Society --> 3. Fins Information Age 1. Read Me 2. Bibliography and Index 3. CONTENTS 4. Congressional Directories 5. Information Infrastructure 6. Information Resource Management 7. News Columns 8. Periodicals and Newspapers 9. Public Information 10. Special Reports 11. Stakeholders 12. Telecommunications Infrastructure Type=1+ Name=Fins Information Age Path=1/inforM/Educational_Resources/AcademicResourcesByTopic/Computers_and_Society/Fins_Information_Age Host=info.umd.edu Port=901 Admin=inforM Editor URL: gopher://info.umd.edu:901/11/inforM/Educational_Resources/AcademicResourcesByTopic/Computers_and_Soci ety/Fins_Information_Age ------------------------------ From: derek@cs.wisc.edu (Derek Zahn) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:10:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [#94-10-496] BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology Vigdor Schreibman: > Mike W. Perry of > the Discovery Institute (an affiliate of TCI cable television > monopolists) blasted the report in a message delivered earlier > today over the Telecomreg discussion list of the Internet. Perry > called the report of the threat to the survival of the biosphere, > the work of "coercive utopians." However, Schreibman shot back, > that the criticism was motivated by the purely opportunistic > mentality of corporate interests, labeling the charge of > coerciveness as an "unconscionable lie." Hmm. With difficulty because of its digressive style, I read the document in question. Its point seems to be that individuals aren't able to avert the catastrophe being predicted (environmental doom, as usual), and (quoting, now): > Funding for those global purposes should be supported by all > developed nations in close collaboration with the governments, > not-for-profit entities, and global Internet community. If this is not coercive, I assume you mean that all funds to be spent on your Global Research and Education Network, and the other bulky and bloated elements of this scheme, are to be donations (that is, instead of forcing it from the populace at gunpoint in the form of taxes?) I agree that your document uses phrases like "A synergistic strategy of interpersonal action should be adopted to respond to the complex planning challenge..." and if you're just saying that it should be adopted by me but I'm perfectly free not to participate, then no problem. I'll just ignore it along with the dozens of other grand schemes and calls to collective action that are put forward monthly. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just have a distaste for people telling me what I should be doing to support their world-view. derek ------------------------------ From: machado@newton.apple.com (Romana Machado) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 13:27:22 -0800 Subject: [#94-10-497] BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology >------------------------------------------------------------------- >FINS SPECIAL REPORTS October 25, 1994 >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vigdor Schreibman, editor and publisher of FINS, said the report contains >a blueprint for combating the threat to the survival of the biosphere... >Mike W. Perry of the Discovery Institute (an affiliate of TCI cable television >monopolists) blasted the report... However, Schreibman shot back, >that the criticism was motivated by the purely opportunistic >mentality of corporate interests, labeling the charge of >coerciveness as an "unconscionable lie." Schreibman invited interested >citizens to examine the ominous facts themselves, supported by a >significant sector of the scientific community... Oh, please, somebody, take Vigdor out and *Simonize* him! Vigdor, if you had even half a clue what Extropians believe regarding environmental issues, you'd realize how mistaken you are looking to the Extropians list for your messianic complex support. Please go read Julian Simon's book, _The Ultimate Resource_, before disasturbating here again. ............................................................................ Romana Machado romana@apple.com http://www.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp?romanaHQ.html ............................................................................ The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong - but that _is_ the way to bet. - Damon Runyon ------------------------------ From: Vigdor Schreibman - FINS Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [#94-10-498] BIOSPHERE SURVIVAL: Desirable Information Technology On Tue, 25 Oct 1994, Derek Zahn wrote: > Vigdor Schreibman: > > > Mike W. Perry of > > the Discovery Institute (an affiliate of TCI cable television > > monopolists) blasted the report in a message delivered earlier > > today over the Telecomreg discussion list of the Internet. Perry > > called the report of the threat to the survival of the biosphere, > > the work of "coercive utopians." However, Schreibman shot back, > > that the criticism was motivated by the purely opportunistic > > mentality of corporate interests, labeling the charge of > > coerciveness as an "unconscionable lie." .... > > Funding for those global purposes should be supported by all > > developed nations in close collaboration with the governments, > > not-for-profit entities, and global Internet community. > > If this is not coercive, I assume you mean that all funds to > be spent on your Global Research and Education Network, and > the other bulky and bloated elements of this scheme, are > to be donations (that is, instead of forcing it from the > populace at gunpoint in the form of taxes?) .... > Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just have a distaste > for people telling me what I should be doing to support > their world-view. I understand that the opportunists in this society like it better when they are buying influence in the legislature with monopoly-bases resources, so as to rig the system in their favor with hundreds of billions in industry subsidies. However, majority rule and taxation to support rational or essential public prograns is part of our social contract. Support for a Global Research and Education Network that would help overcome the threat to the survival of the biosphere is an important initiative well within the domain of positive democratic action. Funding for the program would not come from any new taxation but from a realistic reallocation of funds now being poured into a black hole for information technology that is without sound basis. If the critics lable this proposal as some form of "coercive utopianism" they should not complain when others dismiss their criticism as mere opportunistic propaganda. Vigdor ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V94 #297 *********************************