From extropians-request@extropy.org Thu Dec 16 02:29:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by chaph.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.0) id AA06158; Thu, 16 Dec 93 02:29:31 PST Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: from news.panix.com by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA29782; Thu, 16 Dec 93 02:29:24 PST Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: by news.panix.com id AA10205 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for more@usc.edu); Thu, 16 Dec 1993 05:23:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 05:23:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199312161023.AA10205@news.panix.com> To: Extropians@extropy.org From: Extropians@extropy.org Subject: Extropians Digest X-Extropian-Date: December 16, 373 P.N.O. [10:22:48 UTC] Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Status: RO Extropians Digest Thu, 16 Dec 93 Volume 93 : Issue 349 Today's Topics: "Rapture of the Future" [1 msgs] A Word About Nietzsche [5 msgs] Baby Killing Assault Rifles - Glock 17 [1 msgs] Brave New Extropia? , Extropian children [1 msgs] DO: Derek's Quotient (was Hundreds of Uses for Newtons) [1 msgs] Extropian Vow of Silence... [1 msgs] GROSS: Minutes of most recent meeting [2 msgs] Game Theory is Fun! [1 msgs] Got It! [1 msgs] Human Language [1 msgs] Hundreds of Uses for Newtons [3 msgs] Jeff's GATT non-writing example... [1 msgs] META : Privacy [1 msgs] Reverse Polish Moon Treaty [2 msgs] Secrecy, jokes, Newton... [1 msgs] VVLS: clarification [1 msgs] Administrivia: No admin msg. Approximate Size: 52379 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 16:24:32 -0500 (EST) From: Arthur Hlavaty Subject: Hundreds of Uses for Newtons On Wed, 15 Dec 1993 nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu wrote: > Actually, how about a whole divination packet? Astrology, runes, > Tarot, I Ching.....and throw in a moon-phase and cross-quarter > calendar for the pagans. > > Actually, how would you folks feel about the ethics of selling > such a thing if you didn't make any claims that the system > actually predicted the future (except about the moon-phases ;-) ), > but merely stated that it calculated according to whatever system > of astrology or whatever that it actually uses? > I'd feel quite comfortable about such a thing, as I can't prove that astrology works OR THAT IT DOESN'T. I think it is a symbol system that can be useful in the right hands and nonsensical or harmful in the wrong ones. This is also the claim I would make for the rituals of the Church of Freud. Arthur D. Hlavaty hlavaty@panix.com "The Mason's face is ajar."--Firesign Theater ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 16:34:20 -0500 (EST) From: Arthur Hlavaty Subject: Baby Killing Assault Rifles - Glock 17 On Tue, 14 Dec 1993, Dave Krieger wrote: > At 1:04 PM 12/14/93 -0500, Arthur Hlavaty wrote: > >I think it deliciously ironic that Jupiter-size brain wannabes are talking > >about guns. :-) > > Why do you find that ironic? > dV/dt > > This comment was a reply to the original remark about the irony of discussions of shoes and hot tubs in these precincts. Loose shoes and a warm place to bathe seem no less an extropian subject than guns. In fact, one thing I would think larger brains would be good for is finding a way to live a good life without guns. Arthur D. Hlavaty hlavaty@panix.com "The Mason's face is ajar."--Firesign Theater ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 18:09:04 -0230 From: Bill Garland Subject: Got It! From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) Subject: Got It! X-Message-Number: #93-12-296 >> Bill Garland sent me a copy of "Rapture of the Future". It was as >> funny as I'd hoped. >> >> Nancy Lebovitz > >But this is a violation of the list rules! Sending an Extropians list >posting to someone not on the list at the time of the posting and >without the explicit permission of the original poster is clearly a >violation of the rules! As I mentioned, I thought I was guilty, but... >(I have no intention here of picking on Bill Garland, it's just that >he was recently complaining about people on the list _talking_ to >"non-list entities" about the Extropians list, which is not against >any list rules I am aware of, while then violating *explicit* list >rules against sending List postings to folks not on the List at the >time the post was made!) we don't know _when_ which members joined the list (feeble excuse, I know.) and >After seeing Nancy's message, and after this blatantly illegal (:-}) >act occurred, I did indeed grant permission for my "Rapture of the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Future" article (which is I assume the article in question, unless >someone else also wrote a piece using my title) to be sent to Nancy. so I guess that let's me off the hook! Whew. >No doubt I could press charges, get a conviction, and after several >months have the conviction upheld. > >But, as no damage has been done (in fact, "Thanks, Bill!"), I won't. > >Just an exercise in irony. Irony squared - is that meta-irony? I.E. You said you could press charges and get a conviction even though you yourself provided the evidence above that would acquit me! >--Tim May Bill Garland, whose .sig still says "My name is Bill and I am an Extropian" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 13:49:00 -0800 From: dkrieger@netcom.com (Dave Krieger) Subject: VVLS: clarification Under the influence of caffeine, Dave Krieger wrote: >This struck me as being a quickly-tossed-off hack job -- rather than >actually read anything from our "eclectic syllabus", my guess is that >Dibbell just chose to mention those books he had already read (or at least >had an opinion about). If he's still reading this list, I challenge him to >read Friedman and Julian Simon and then come back with the same tired PC >viewpoint. This paragraph was supposed to refer only to the section about environmentalism (which I perversely forgot to quote) -- overall I thought it was, as I said, a net win. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 15:51:00 -0600 (CST) From: derek@cs.wisc.edu (Derek Zahn) Subject: DO: Derek's Quotient (was Hundreds of Uses for Newtons) Scott Meeks: > So Derek cites 22 possible uses, 13.5 of which (roughly) already exist. > Based on an earlier thread, that gives him a Dynamic Optimism Quotient > (DOQ) of 39. Yikes! I can't remember, is a high value good or a low one? Anyway, some more uses for those cute li'l things: * With the accelerometer PCMCIA attachment, grading roller coasters and counting steps while jogging. * Memory aid to help its owner say interesting things at parties. * Dog whistle / duck call * w. OCR attachment, bingo card marker * Wilderness survival guide * Magic 8 ball to help with those tough decisions (oops, nancy covered that already) * WorldWideWeb via packet radio * Cigarette timer for people trying to quit * Home inventory for when your house burns down while you're computing on the BART all day (don't forget the insurance company phone #) * Having the "Rapture of the Future" essay / contact info handy at all times * Convenient brain backups * Checkbook / check printer * Various "expert systems" for repair people * Alarm clock; nap anywhere! * X-rated GIF viewer * Ventriloquist's aid * Foreign language dictionaries * Emily Post's Personal Etiquette Helper * YouCanDoIt! At random times, it provides you with supportive, positive reinforcement (similarly, the Electronic Conscience) * 1001 Jokes for All Occasions derek and my favorite new app: 1001 Things To Do With Your Newton! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 14:14:55 -0800 From: dkrieger@netcom.com (Dave Krieger) Subject: GROSS: Minutes of most recent meeting Weekly meeting of "Get Rid Of Slimy statistS", Chapter Minutes, Wednesday: Let the record state that at 10:54 AM 12/15/93 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >If I'm mistaken about this, and Extropians is actually some kind of >secret society, then I guess I missed taking the Sacred Pledge of >Silence. First Tiger Hobbes proposed banishment and excommunication of Brother May for failure to note the secrecy of our sacred club. HyperPope Max pointed out that the Sacred Pledge of Silence should have been adminstered to Brother May when he received his Secret PGP Decoder Ring, ritual tattooing, and key to the Virtual Clubhouse. Fingers were pointed at List-Lord-for-Life HABS, who said that he was out of town that day and that it was actually Brother ROMwell who gave Brother May his key and should have adminstered the pledge. Brother ROMwell called List-Lord-for-Life HABS a no-good entropian sympathizer. List-Lord-for-Life HABS responded by banishing Brother ROMwell from the Virtual Clubhouse for two biological lifetimes or 6.5E35 floating-point-operations, whichever comes first. Brother ROMwell kicked LLfL HABS in the shins and said since he built the Virtual Clubhouse he couldn't be banished from it. Jupiter Brain in Training Metzger broke in and said that building the Virtual Clubhouse was his idea and if they didn't pipe down both LLfL HABS and Brother ROMwell would be head-down in a dewar of LN2 before you could say "Mike Federowicz." General brouhaha and brawling ensued. Finally, HyperPope Max restored order by proposing a resolution exempting Brother May from the requirement of the secret loyalty oath if he recites the "IRS Agent Banishing Ritual" from the Society Ytnal[1]. Then we all went across the street to pee on the side of the Post Office and the meeting was adjourned. Everyone agreed it was a great meeting, except for the First Extropian Squirrel, who could not be found. We asked First Tiger Hobbes, who belched but would not respond to questioning. GROSS Secretary-for-Life Shecky Upload [1] An ytnal, as you may or may not know, is the approved and gender-neutral term for what used to be called a "hymnal". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 14:14:59 -0800 From: dkrieger@netcom.com (Dave Krieger) Subject: "Rapture of the Future" At 11:16 AM 12/15/93 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >A fellow seeker of The Cure, Nancy Lebovitze, asked about it. I feel >other Sufferers may be in need also, so here it is. > >--Klaus! von Future Prime, Substance-Free for 12 Weeks No, no -- the mailing list has been without substance for much longer than that! Shecky Upload ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:14:42 GMT From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu Subject: A Word About Nietzsche >From what I can gather, Nietzsche rather liked Jews and despised Germans. I'm not sure what the Nazis saw in him, unless it was the rather considerable sense of self-inflation and the belief that contempt towards one's inferiors was one of the signs of a superior person. Even so, I don't recall any evidence that he would have wanted to see self-congratulation institutionalized in any form, let alone the way the Nazis did it. On the other hand, I think he really did hate women. When he said in _Thus Spoke Zarathustra_, "When you go to women, forget not your whip", is there any reason to think that he was kidding? Nancy Lebovitz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:28:57 GMT From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu Subject: Hundreds of Uses for Newtons Arthur Hlavaty writes about occult software for the Newton: . I'd feel quite comfortable about such a thing, as I can't prove .that astrology works OR THAT IT DOESN'T. I think it is a symbol system .that can be useful in the right hands and nonsensical or harmful in the .wrong ones. This is also the claim I would make for the rituals of the .Church of Freud.