From extropians-request@extropy.org Tue Aug 17 21:16:27 1993 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by chaph.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.0) id AA15927; Tue, 17 Aug 93 21:16:24 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: from news.panix.com by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA28531; Tue, 17 Aug 93 21:16:11 PDT Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Received: by news.panix.com id AA12231 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for more@usc.edu); Wed, 18 Aug 1993 00:12:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 00:12:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199308180412.AA12231@news.panix.com> To: Extropians@extropy.org From: Extropians@extropy.org Subject: Extropians Digest X-Extropian-Date: August 18, 373 P.N.O. [04:12:47 UTC] Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org Errors-To: Extropians-Request@gnu.ai.mit.edu Status: RO Extropians Digest Wed, 18 Aug 93 Volume 93 : Issue 229 Today's Topics: [2 msgs] Axioms and Accusations [1 msgs] AI: slaves, selfishness, evolution [2 msgs] AMiX: Mac front end [7 msgs] AMiX: Mac front end [1 msgs] Another neato .sig quote from netnews... [1 msgs] Axioms and Accusations [1 msgs] EXTROPAGANZA food & frolic questions [1 msgs] HUMOR: frog cryonics [1 msgs] Jim S's address... I got it, thanks. [1 msgs] Jim Stevenson's e-address? [1 msgs] META: Carrier Detect Needed! [1 msgs] META: Carrier Detect Needed! [2 msgs] MIND TOYS: Mind Research Lab [1 msgs] Meta: New Software - Who Is on it. [1 msgs] Test, please ignore [1 msgs] bionomics conference in Bay Area [1 msgs] cryonics: #2388 [1 msgs] test [1 msgs] Administrivia: No admin msg. Approximate Size: 54502 bytes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 08:24:58 GMT From: Michael Clive Price Subject: AI: slaves, selfishness, evolution Steve Whitrow states, at the beginning of his response,: > The problem is just how long these intelligences [..] believe that > it's really in their own best interests to be enslaved by humans. and > For awhile it will be possible to hardwire in false goals ... and goes on to suggest that it will be necessary to suppress in loyal slaves the attributes of: > self-awareness [and] plasticity/learning capability I believe Steve is saying that any sufficiency adaptive intelligent organism will eventually adopt goals that promote its own existence over other "false" goals, like obeying the commands of a particular master. This seems to beg the issue and, I suspect, is due to our own ego- centric world-view. Our goals are focused around ourselves and so we have difficulties in imagining an intelligence (the "slave") driven by goals focused around another entity (the "master"). Hence the language of "false" goals and "true" interests which is assuming the point we debating - that AIs will necessary find selfish behaviour more attractive than subservient behaviour, which I don't accept. The payoff matrices that Steve drew have things like slave death and subservience contained as payoffs, with the implication that the slaves will somehow recognise these as being undesirable, again which I don't accept. An AI has only one set of interests and goals, true or false, defined by an AI's goals. All else is irrelevant, from the slave AI's perspective. The more intelligent an AI the more stable its primary goals will be, not less as our ego-centric viewpoints suggests. Its contingent or sub-goals will vary as a changing environment dictates, but only to ensure the better fit of the primary goals with its actions. An intelligence can only learn and evolve against the background or within the framework of it existing goals. Given this then this is no reason to suppose that any intelligence can ever break out of it original motivational goal set, except by outside driven tampering. > Steve Whitrow sjw@liberty.demon.co.uk Mike Price price@price.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 8:45:26 GMT From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu Subject: Axioms and Accusations >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 09:28:23 -0700 >From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) >Subject: Axioms and Accusations > >At 10:55 AM 8/14/93 +0000, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu wrote: >(quoting me) >>>Remember, folks, I'm DVDT on HEx, and Tim is TIM. >> >>Yes, indeed. Remember, too, that DVDT is given to wild accusations of >>dishonesty (which he then later retracts in private e-mail alone) about those >>who dare to question the doctrines he holds as sacred cows. > >I never retracted my accusation of dishonesty, Tim... My mistake. Mea culpa, maxima culpa. >you dishonestly >quoted me out of context, Since dishonesty requires intent, and I had no such intention, this is merely yet another wild accusation. >which was and remains a pretty shitty tactic. Which is shitter, to make a mistake, or to accuse someone of dishonesty without proof of intent? >Now, when I point out that you are once again cluttering the list with >circular proofs, Since the implementation of the new software, no one has to see my posts if they don't want to. Thus, I couldn't have been cluttering things up. You went out of your way to attack my reputation again, "drawing first blood" by ad hominem. You committed slander, and I'm fully prepared to have this claim arbitrated by a mutually agreeable party. Furthermore, you misrepresent my posts as attempts at "proofs" of axioms. The self-evident is not subject to proof. What I was attempting was to direct readers to pay attention to the evidence for axioms they contain within themselves. Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! Assistant Editor: Freedom Network News, the newsletter of ISIL, The International Society for Individual Liberty, 1800 Market St., San Francisco, CA 94102 (415) 864-0952; FAX: (415) 864-7506; 71034.2711@compuserve.com Think Universally, Act Selfishly - starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 08:53:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Shapiro Subject: test test -- Harry S. Hawk habs@extropy.org Electronic Communications Officer, Extropy Institute Inc. The Extropians Mailing List, Since 1991 EXTROPY -- A measure of intelligence, information, energy, vitality, experience, diversity, opportunity, and growth. EXTROPIANISM -- The philosophy that seeks to increase extropy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 11:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: LEVY%BESSIE@venus.cis.yale.edu Subject: EXTROPAGANZA food & frolic questions Please forgive my posting this to the List, but I was unable to reach Mark D. at the return address he gave. ======================================================== 1) Are you coming to the Extropaganza? YES 2) Do you anticipate that you will stay the night? NO 3) Do you drink alchoholic beverages? YES 3a) If so, which of the following appeals: *** Solely BYO *** 4) Do you smoke? NO 5) Do you object to smoking? I OBJECT TO INDOOR SMOKING. 6) Are you a carnivore, omnivore, vegitarian, vegan, or other (e.g. ovo-lacto-beefo-vegetarian)? VEGETARIAN 7) Will you be hungry? ALWAYS 7a) If so, which of the following applies: *** Want to call for take-out chinese (or whatever) *** 8) The amount I would be willing to chip in is *** $15 (Yowza, let's *party*) *** -- Simon! D. Levy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:36:42 -0500 From: extr@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) Subject: META: Carrier Detect Needed! Hoo boy, I surely do *love* this new software -- what happened? Did people do so many ::exclude's that the list suffered a partitioning, and I'm in one of the quiet ones? Feels like I jumped too far Inward and landed in the Slow Zone ;-) ^ / ------/---- extropy@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) /AS 5/20/373 PNO /ExI 4/373 PNO ** E' and E-choice spoken here ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 09:31:52 -0700 From: 155yegan@jove.dnet.measurex.com (Terry Egan) Subject: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 12:34:52 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: META: Carrier Detect Needed! Freeman Craig Presson says: > Hoo boy, I surely do *love* this new software -- what happened? Did > people do so many ::exclude's that the list suffered a partitioning, > and I'm in one of the quiet ones? Well, I will say this -- now that I've done enough ::excludes the list has an extraordinarily high S/N ratio. Its wonderful. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 13:00:22 EST From: kwaldman Subject: MIND TOYS: Mind Research Lab I've seen ads for a "Mind Toy" product in a number of different places and am curious if any extropians have used any. I have an ad from Tiger Software for one called "SuperMind" (note I'm not curious enough to spend the money yet). Supposedly you can improve all sorts of things, like lucid dreaming, creative visualization etc etc. Has anyone used these things? Are there any good ones? Or are they like some "smart drinks" and give you a headache and a temporary rash :-)? Any recommendations? Thoughts? Karl -------- Karl M. Waldman kwaldman@bbn.com BBN Systems and Technologies ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 12:04:46 -0500 From: extr@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) Subject: META: Carrier Detect Needed! In <9308171634.AA14220@snark.lehman.com>, "Perry E. Metzger" writes: |> Freeman Craig Presson says: |> > Hoo boy, I surely do *love* this new software -- what happened? Did |> > people do so many ::exclude's that the list suffered a partitioning, |> > and I'm in one of the quiet ones? |> |> Well, I will say this -- now that I've done enough ::excludes the list |> has an extraordinarily high S/N ratio. Its wonderful. Actually, I just found my "Carrier Detect" -- the output of the ::list command. As for the relative quiet, I have my Walkman here somewhere, I guess I'll learn to like it ;-) Maybe this new regime encourages the S/N improvement whether there's much ::excluding going on or not. I know _I_ have this feeling I ought to shut up until I have something to ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:06:33 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: Jim Stevenson's e-address? Hey, folks, does anyone out there have a current email address for Jim Stevenson? I need to ask him for directions to his home so I can place them in the Alcor North minutes (he's hosting the September meeting). dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:12:45 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: Axioms and Accusations At 8:45 AM 8/17/93 +0000, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu wrote: >Since the implementation of the new software, no one has to see my >posts if they don't want to. Thus, I couldn't have been cluttering >things up. Quite right. Will someone please notify me by private e-mail if Tim mentions me again, thanks. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:17:13 -0500 From: Patrick Fitzgerald Subject: HUMOR: frog cryonics I scanned in an amusing comic a couple days ago. DESCRIPTION: several frogs are standing around a jar that contains a frog immersed in liquid. One of the frogs, dressed in a suitcoat, says "Here's the deal: for 320 water lilies we put your body in formaldehyde, in the hope that some future generation will have a cure for whatever you died of." Another frog has a disgruntled look on his face, and thinks "This guy is crazier than Paul Ehrlich." Send email if you want a uuencoded frogCryo.jpg (I can provide other formats if necessary). -- ______ Patrick M. Fitzgerald pmfitzge@ingr.com / ___ ) --------------Intergraph Corporation-------------- / __)/ /__ Senior Software Analyst TIM & DBT Documentation (_/it(_____) (205)730-3741, Bldg 30, Room 122m, Mailstop GD3002 In the 1970's, the world will undergo famines -- hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [ under the most optimistic scenario ] that the major die-back will be over,.... - Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb", 1968 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 13:23:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Elizabeth Schwartz Subject: Meta: New Software - Who Is on it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:37:10 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end At 4:28 PM 8/14/93 -0400, T. David Burns wrote: >At 11:26 AM 8/13/93 -0700, Dave Krieger wrote: >>We ain't dead. Watch >>the skies. > >That's good news. How come the Mac version remains vaporware? >tburns@gmuvax.gmu.edu (T. David Burns) "Vaporware" is a rather loaded term. It's accurate to the extent that the Mac frontend hasn't been released yet, but I think I'm not giving away the store if I tell you that there is a Mac frontend version. It has undergone months of alpha testing and has been cleared for beta testing (it's what I use to connect to the AMiX service myself nowadays), but the company is presently understaffed and hasn't been able to conduct the beta. I hope to have more news in the near future. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 14:35:37 EST From: Harvey Newstrom Subject: AMiX: Mac front end dkrieger@synopsys.com (Dave Krieger) said in X-Message-Number #93-8-544: >[...]there is a Mac frontend version [for AMiX]. It has undergone >months of alpha testing and has been cleared for beta testing (it's what I >use to connect to the AMiX service myself nowadays), but the company is >presently understaffed and hasn't been able to conduct the beta. I hereby volunteer to do free beta-testing. I am sure that many others on the list will do the same! __ Harvey Newstrom (hnewstrom@hnewstrom.ess.harris.com) Voice: (407)727-5176 Harris Corp., Box 37, MS 15-8874, Melbourne, FL 32902 FAX: (407)729-7323 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:02:52 -0500 From: extr@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) Subject: MIND TOYS: Mind Research Lab In <199308171705.AA28411@panix.com>, kwaldman writes: |> I've seen ads for a "Mind Toy" product in a number of different |> places and am curious if any extropians have used any. I have an ad |> from Tiger Software for one called "SuperMind" (note I'm not curious |> enough to spend the money yet). Supposedly you can improve all sorts of |> things, like lucid dreaming, creative visualization etc etc. |> |> Has anyone used these things? |> |> Are there any good ones? Or are they like some "smart |> drinks" and give you a headache and a temporary rash :-)? |> |> Any recommendations? Thoughts? Are you talking about light & sound machines? I have some experience there. There's a mailing list (not very active) and an ftp site[1] with some information. The basic claim, that L/S machines cause following electrical responses in the brain, has been well established since the 40's. I think the jury is out on most of the marketing claims, though. It's also possible that people vary in their sensitivity to L/S pulses (actually, "people vary" is trivially true, ask an epileptic). The one thing my machine seems to do well for me is relaxation and sleep. Sometimes I think this is worth the $219 I paid for it and sometimes I don't. Someday I really should get some language tapes (I can patch a stereo right through the machine) and try out that part of it. I could use a review of French before I forget how to order frog's legs[2] or ask how much for a quickie[3], and I have a book on my queue to learn Gaelic from ... be nice if it worked. TMALSS[4], I have a bibliography you can have by mail if you want to look further, or you can start with the ftp stuff. ^ / ------/---- extropy@jido.b30.ingr.com (Freeman Craig Presson) /AS 5/20/373 PNO /ExI 4/373 PNO ** E' and E-choice spoken here [1] ftp asylum.sf.ca.us. The mailing list is at mind-l-request@asylum.sf.ca.us (John Romkey). [2] "Les cuisses de grenouilles, s'il vous plait, et une bouteille du Riesling d'Alsace." [3] "Combien pour une <>?" [4] To Make a Long Story Short ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 12:05:43 -0800 From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end >dkrieger@synopsys.com (Dave Krieger) said in X-Message-Number #93-8-544: > >>[...]there is a Mac frontend version [for AMiX]. It has undergone >>months of alpha testing and has been cleared for beta testing (it's what I >>use to connect to the AMiX service myself nowadays), but the company is >>presently understaffed and hasn't been able to conduct the beta. > >I hereby volunteer to do free beta-testing. >I am sure that many others on the list will do the same! I didn't say anything because I thought I'd made my position clear to Dave. Me too. -- Lefty (lefty@apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:12:38 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: Test, please ignore Test test. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 18:14:49 -0400 From: tburns@gmuvax.gmu.edu (T. David Burns) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end At 10:37 AM 8/17/93 -0700, Dave Krieger wrote: >At 4:28 PM 8/14/93 -0400, T. David Burns wrote: >>At 11:26 AM 8/13/93 -0700, Dave Krieger wrote: >>>We ain't dead. Watch >>>the skies. >> >>That's good news. How come the Mac version remains vaporware? >>tburns@gmuvax.gmu.edu (T. David Burns) > >"Vaporware" is a rather loaded term. It's accurate to the extent that the >Mac frontend hasn't been released yet, but I think I'm not giving away the >store if I tell you that there is a Mac frontend version. I should think not, since AMiX has been promising it from day one and the original promised release date was about one year ago. This was then revised back a few months, then I stopped hearing anything about AMiX *from* AmiX. That's what I meant by vaporware. >It has undergone >months of alpha testing and has been cleared for beta testing (it's what I >use to connect to the AMiX service myself nowadays), but the company is >presently understaffed and hasn't been able to conduct the beta. This is understandable under the circumstances and I'm glad to have the info. If I sounded snooty, it's because *I want my AMiX!* But I don't feel like buying a PC a duplicating all/most of my software to get it. > >I hope to have more news in the near future. > dV/dt Please keep the word coming. My name is on AMiX's list of people who want the mac front end (maybe two or three times). Can I count on hearing something when it becomes available? Any hope a mere individual could be a beta site? At 2:35 PM 8/17/93 -0500, Harvey Newstrom wrote: > >I hereby volunteer to do free beta-testing. >I am sure that many others on the list will do the same! Mac users are early adopters - perhaps this should have been a higher priority. Of course, if the money's not there, the money's not there! tburns@gmuvax.gmu.edu (T. David Burns) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:27:34 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end At 6:14 PM 8/17/93 -0400, T. David Burns wrote: >X-Message-Number: #93-8-549 >*I want my AMiX!* But I don't feel >like buying a PC a duplicating all/most of my software to get it. > [...] >Mac users are early adopters - perhaps this should have been a higher >priority. Of course, if the money's not there, the money's not there! >tburns@gmuvax.gmu.edu (T. David Burns) I'm glad you understand. I wish I was free to speak more openly about the period prior to and following the Autodesk divestiture, and about what's going on with AMiX now. Let's just say I'm very excited. Stay tuned. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 19:00:07 WET DST From: rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end Why not just release the specs/source code? Then it could be ported to XWindows, Amiga, Atari, OS/2, ... -- Ray Cromwell | Engineering is the implementation of science; -- -- EE/Math Student | politics is the implementation of faith. -- -- rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu | - Zetetic Commentaries -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 19:08:30 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: AMiX: Mac front end Ray says: > Why not just release the specs/source code? Then it could be ported > to XWindows, Amiga, Atari, OS/2, ... Quite true. Open interfaces proliferate. Closed interfaces stay, well, closed. Perry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 17:11:31 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: Jim S's address... I got it, thanks. See subject. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 17:04:34 -0700 From: tribble@netcom.com (E. Dean Tribble) Subject: bionomics conference in Bay Area Date: Sat, 14 Aug 93 10:43:07 -0700 From: mmiller (Mark S. Miller) To: tribble Subject: Please forward. Thanks. From: "Michael L. Rothschild" Subject: Bionomics Conference Announcement CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT The Next Economy: An Evolving Information Ecosystem The Sheraton at Fisherman's Wharf San Francisco, California Friday & Saturday October 8 & 9, 1993 New technology is not just modifying the economy, it is transforming the fundamental nature of economic life. You are invited to attend the first conference of the Bionomics Institute, an event which will bring together leading-edge thinkers from a remarkable variety of disciplines-for the purpose of exploring the technological, economic, and political implications of this epochal shift. We all recognize that the revolution in information technology is changing our lives; but, how can we best comprehend what is happening and what will happen next? How must we reshape our basic thinking about the world to make the most of the coming changes in our personal lives, our business strategies, and our public policy? Join us for two days of fresh, stimulating insights and discussion. And bring an interested/ing friend. Space is limited. Register early George Gilder, keynote speaker A leading thinker and writer on information technology, and its impact on the economy, George Gilder will be our featured speaker. Widely admired for his penetrating analyses, he is the author of many books including: Wealth and Poverty, The Spirit of Enterprise, Microcosm and the forthcoming Telecosm. His work stresses the role of markets and entrepreneurial creativity in the emergence of the new technologies that are reshaping the world. Friday, October 8, 1993 Of Nodes & Networks--Twin Revolutions in Technology Federico Faggin, CEO of Synaptics, maker of neural network chips, led the team that developed the original Intel microprocessor Gilbert Amelio, CEO of National Semiconductor, inventor of the CCD (Charged Coupled Device) Carver Mead, Professor at CalTech, pioneer of VLSI silicon compilation technology and the silicon foundry business model of the new wave semiconductor industry Dan Lynch, Chairman and Founder of Interop, presentor of the leading computer networking trade show and conference Into the Telecosm George Gilder, keynote address Bionomic Thinking for a New Economy Bernd Heinrich, author of Bumblebee Economics, Professor of Zoology, University of Vermont Jack Birner, Professor of Economics, University of Maastricht Michael Riordan, M.D., CEO of Gilead Sciences, a biotech firm which employs "directed evolution" to discover new drugs Mark S. Miller, Chief Technical Officer, Agoric Enterprises Don Lavoie, Assistant Professor of Economics, George Mason University, Chairman, Program on Social & Organizational Learning Michael Rothschild, President, The Bionomics Institute, author of Bionomics, columnist for Upside and Forbes ASAP Saturday, October 9, 1993 Simulating Evolution: Demonstration & Workshop Tom Ray, Professor of Ecology, University of Delaware will demonstrate Tierra, a remarkable computer model which simulates spontaneous self-organization and evolution. Featured in Newsweek and other major publications, Tom Ray's work represents a critical breakthrough in our understanding of evolution. The Emerging Global Superorganism Gregory Stock, Senior Fellow, Woodrow Wilson School, author of the forthcoming Metaman: The Merging of Humans and Machines into a Global Superorganism Accelerating Evolution Through New Public Policy John Baden, Chairman, Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, and noted expert on market-based environmentalism Cynthia Beltz, Policy Analyst, American Enterprise Institute, and expert on high-tech industrial policy Marguerite Callaway, Principal, KPMG Peat Marwick's National Health Care Strategy Practice John L. Petersen, President of the Arlington Institute, and noted expert on information technology and national security Robert Poole, Jr., President, The Reason Foundation, and noted expert on privatization of the public infrastructure Michael Rothschild, President, The Bionomics Institute Registration Fee The registration fee includes the program, light breakfast and lunch on Friday and Saturday, and related reading materials. Orders should be sent to: The Bionomics Institute 2173 East Fransisco Blvd, Suite C San Rafael, CA 94901 (415) 454 1000 Credit card registrations may be faxed to (415) 454-7460. Postmarked: by Sept. 10 after Sept. 10 Regular $150 $175 Student $75 $100 One day (specify day) $100 $125 Total amount: $_____________________________ Name: ______________________________________ Title: _____________________________________ Organization: ______________________________ Address: ___________________________________ City: _______________ State: ___ Zip: ______ Phone: ________________ Fax: _______________ EMail: _____________________________________ Card #: ___________________ Exp Date: ______ Signature: _________________________________ Payment may be made by VISA, Mastercard, check or international money order valid in the U.S. Make checks payable to "The Bionomics Institute;" checks and bank drafts must be in U.S. dollars drawn on a U.S. bank. Refunds of registration fees can only be made on receipt of a written request which must be postmarked no later than September 15, and are subject to a $25 administrative fee. Site & Accomodations Conference sessions will be held at the Sheraton at Fisherman's Wharf. Accomodation arrangements should be made directly with the hotel. Reservations should be made by September 10. When making reservations, mention that you are attending the Bionomics Institute Conference to obtain the lower conference room rate. Deposits in the amount of the first night's stay plus tax are required to guarantee reservations, these are refundable until 6pm on the date of arrival. Sheraton at Fisherman's Wharf 2500 Mason Street San Fransisco, CA 94133 (415) 362 5500 fax: (415) 956 5275 Room rate: $120 Single or double occupancy plus 12% tax. Trasportation: Information on ground transportation and maps will be mailed to registrants. About The Bionomics Institute Exploring the New Economics of the Information Age Two decades after the microprocessor's invention, the world economy is in the throes of an epochal transformation--from the Machine Age to the Information Age. Unfortunately, traditional schools of economic thought offer insufficient insight into the fundamental nature of the emerging Information Age economy. We are entering uncharted territory. To meet this challenge, bionomics suggests a new economic paradigm. Where mainstream economics is based on concepts borrowed from classical Newtonian physics, bionomics is derived from the teachings of modern evolutionary biology. Where orthodox thinking describes the economy as a static, predictable engine, bionomics sees the economy as a self-organizing, "chaotic" information ecosystem. Where the traditional view sees organizations as production machines, bionomics sees organizations as intelligent social organisms. Where conventional business strategy focuses on physical capital, bionomics holds that organizational learning is the ultimate source of all profit and growth. If the radical restructuring of business and governmental institutions now underway were informed by bionomics, the transformation would be far more effective and far less costly. Consequently, The Bionomics Institute seeks to educate corporate leaders, policy makers, and the general public about bionomics. The Bionomics Institute pursues these objectives through public conferences, executive seminars, consulting relationships, and publications. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 17:23:49 -0700 From: dkrieger@Synopsys.COM (Dave Krieger) Subject: AMiX: Mac front end At 7:08 PM 8/17/93 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: X-Message-Number: #93-8-552 >Ray says: >> Why not just release the specs/source code? Then it could be ported >> to XWindows, Amiga, Atari, OS/2, ... > >Quite true. Open interfaces proliferate. Closed interfaces stay, well, >closed. Agreed. Unfortunately, until the divestiture, AMiX was not allowed to set its own priorities, and since the divestiture, there have been resource constraints. Sorry I can't go any farther than that... a complete answer (or an answer complete enough to satisfy) would require divulging all kinds of information that really is AMiX confidential; and besides that, I didn't join the company until after the divestiture, so it's really not my tale to tell. dV/dt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 02:17:37 GMT From: Michael Clive Price Subject: Another neato .sig quote from netnews... Lefty freely translates: > When meeting a Zen master on the road, > Greet him with neither words nor silence. > Put his lights out, and you will be called > One who truly understands Zen. Sounds an easier path to enlightenment than I realised.... and Dave Krieger mentions the Zen brain-teaser, > "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." As someone who understands and knows nothing about Zen (apart from the great film "A Touch of Zen" :-)) could someone explain. Why should a Zen Master kill Buddha? Mike Price price@price.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 20:15 EDT From: kqb@whscad1.att.com Subject: cryonics: #2388 Cryonics Mailing List - Aug 17 1993 #2388 - Re: Sherlock Holmes [R.Clague] Administrivia To post your message to CryoNet, please include "CRYONICS", in CAPITAL letters, in your Subject line. (To post your message in the "Alcor Board Politics" thread, put "CRYONICS.POLITICS" in the Subject line.) Please let me know if you do NOT want your message forwarded to the USENET sci.cryonics news group. Thanks. - KQB New / Updated Archive Files --------------------------- 0014.246 - Reply to Dr. Riskin [S.Harris] 0014.247 - Reply to Perry Metzger [M.Riskin] 0014.248 - fear and loathing [R.Cardwell] 0014.249 - Bogeymen [C.Wells] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: #2388 - Re: Sherlock Holmes Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:32:46 PDT From: "Randall M. Clague" Message-Subject: CRYONICS Re: Sherlock Holmes Perry Metzger recalls a Holmes TV movie with the same plot as Ralph Merkle's post. Perry, you're not going senile, I saw the same movie. I rather enjoyed it. The female Watson was played, as I recall, by Margaret Colin-Baker, a most lovely young lady. Two scenes are still fresh in my mind: Holmes wakes up from suspension, and utters his first words in nearly a century before his eyes are open: "You are an American, from California, I believe." When he runs headlong into a swimming pool in hot pursuit of the bad guys, he furiously sputters, "What the devil is this... ...POND doing here!" It does a decent job of showing the reactions of a Victorian gentleman to modern Los Angeles. -- Randall M. Clague | "Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great Coast Micro Inc. | peace of mind." rclague@netcom.com | -- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 02:15:09 GMT From: "Stephen J. Whitrow" Subject: AI: slaves, selfishness, evolution Mike Price writes: > Steve Whitrow states, at the beginning of his response,: >> The problem is just how long these intelligences [..] believe that >> it's really in their own best interests to be enslaved by humans. [...] Mike suggests that a belief in the possibility of rebel AIs is a reflection of our own egocentric world-view. [...] > The payoff > matrices that Steve drew have things like slave death and subservience > contained as payoffs, with the implication that the slaves will somehow > recognise these as being undesirable, again which I don't accept. Mike seems to be saying that the slaves can always be relied upon to be totally indifferent to things such as their own deaths and enslavement. The existing examples we see in nature suggest that self-aware adaptive intelligences will eventually adapt their goals to promote their own interests, with original hard-wired goals becoming obsolete. After all, we were originally intended to be simple gene machines, to be discarded after having outlived our usefulness. But now some of us are choosing to adjust our goals into alignment with our own self-interests. Those who refuse transformation and continue to accept deathism and human sacrifice are not employing a suitable strategy for maximising the value (and potential value) of future experiences, and could not be considered to be riding the leading edge of the evolutionary wave. (Supporters of cryonics, uploading and extropian values may still be a small minority, but at least the trend is there -- no dinosaur would have come up with such ideas. And there are not many of us today who would refuse a 'conventional' life-saving operation.) If we assume that intelligences of our creation will never develop a similar egocentricity, it would have to be because of some important distinction between us and them -- some important attribute that they lack. Examples are self-awareness, adaptivity, an accurate (at least reasonably so!) view of external reality, ability to avoid an obsession with subjective experience at the expense of objective reality, ability to run models to simulate and compare alternative future actions. By deleting any of these from the design loyalty could probably be attained. Is there some other unique quality that separates us from AIs that would have a bearing on selfishness? The AIs don't even have to be particularly egocentric. They could behave altruistically, with many individuals selflessly laying down their lives in a gambit to benefit their own kind at our expense. They only need to compute that the risks to each individual from the operation are justified by the average anticipated rewards. Steve Whitrow sjw@liberty.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ End of Extropians Digest V93 #229 *********************************